MTT > CASH.

DrSharp

We have had quite a few MTT players posting in the clinic about switching to cash games.

Now, MTT players seem to struggle when making the switch over mainly due to them not having much experience in deepstack poker. For example, they usually only have a deep stack for the first level or two before the blinds shrink their stack to around 50xBB. 

Basically, should'nt MTT players therefore start playing cash with smaller stacks as that is where they are strong? A stack of 40 or 50 x BB's should work in their favour. Or should they just throw themselves in the deep end and always stick woth 100xBB+? 

They should gain experience of the cash game relatively cheaply until they feel more comfortable. Anyway, its just me thinking out loud as everyone seems to advocate them to start with a big stack straight away.

AcidMan27

I'd always advise to sit with the max buyin. Just make sure you're playing at a level that is suited to your bankroll.

It's much easier to learn how to play cash properly if you're buying in for the full ammount.

Glenelg

In Response to MTT > CASH.:
[QUOTE A stack of 40 or 50 x BB's should work in their favour. Or should they just throw themselves in the deep end and always stick woth 100xBB+?  They should gain experience of the cash game relatively cheaply until they feel more comfortable. Anyway, its just me thinking out loud as everyone seems to advocate them to start with a big stack straight away.
Posted by DrSharp

THis post is something I've been pondering.  I would, eventually, like to play cash but to get there I feel I need to "serve an apprenticeship" so to speak.
I would say that surely be restricting yourself to 40/50 you are potentially losing some value when a big hand comes your way? 
Def interested  in your reasons for 40/50 tho?  DO you mean the less you have on the table the less you could lose?

Lambert180

Well that is true, the less is on the table, the less you can lose (of that particular BI) but A) doesn't stop you buying in for another 50BBs when you've lost your first 50 which is obviously risking as much as just putting 100BB on the table AND obviously you reduce your losses, but reduce your winnings and if you're a good player then you're winning more than you're losing and thus wouldn't wanna do this.

I think what he's saying is, MTT experts are excellent at playing shortstack poker so shouldnt they just stick to what they're good at and play shortstack poker at a cash table.

You can easily limit the number of mistakes you make in an MTT when you're say 10-15BB deep but there is less skill (not no skill!) than playing deepstacked because there is rarely any post-flop play etc. Hence why Deepstack MTTs favour better players because there's more room for good players to outplay bad players. Any fish can wait for a big ace and shove. I would not suggest playing short stack cash, certainly not at 4NL-10NL (maybe higher but I aint played them) because you're gonna resort to having to win races all the time which can be very high variance.  This is why even the best players can't win MTTs all the time, cos you gotta win some races to do it, and I wouldn't suggest taking that attitude to a cash table.

DrSharp

In Response to Re: MTT > CASH.:

Well that is true, the less is on the table, the less you can lose (of that particular BI) but A) doesn't stop you buying in for another 50BBs when you've lost your first 50 which is obviously risking as much as just putting 100BB on the table AND obviously you reduce your losses, but reduce your winnings and if you're a good player then you're winning more than you're losing and thus wouldn't wanna do this. I think what he's saying is, MTT experts are excellent at playing shortstack poker so shouldnt they just stick to what they're good at and play shortstack poker at a cash table. You can easily limit the number of mistakes you make in an MTT when you're say 10-15BB deep but there is less skill (not no skill!) than playing deepstacked because there is rarely any post-flop play etc. Hence why Deepstack MTTs favour better players because there's more room for good players to outplay bad players. Any fish can wait for a big ace and shove. I would not suggest playing short stack cash, certainly not at 4NL-10NL (maybe higher but I aint played them) because you're gonna resort to having to win races all the time which can be very high variance.  This is why even the best players can't win MTTs all the time, cos you gotta win some races to do it, and I wouldn't suggest taking that attitude to a cash table.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

Basically Pad, in an MTT typically you start with a stack of 2000 and blinds of 10/20. Gives you a stack of 100xBB. Most MTT players dont get too involbed early on and dont really get going until level 2 or 3. If the blinds increase to 20/40 at level 2 then you stack shrinks to 50xBB hence my reasoning that MTT players are more comfortable with a smaller stack.

Like i said, i was just wondering out loud and fired it on the forum as an after thought. I would advise players to sit with a full buy in at a cash table but i was just musing wether it could actually be worth sitting with a stack like this for a few games until comfortable to go with a full buy in. There have been a few very very good MTT players who have tried cash games and seem to struggle. I was reading something the other day and it produced this thread. lol.
Posted by Lambert180

rancid

MTT's and Cash are not the same
So the same rules do not apply

MTT's carry certain dynamics that cash simply does not, blinds going up and pressure mounting being the main dynamic - when the blinds go up then they are worth stealing also against the size of your stack
-
Always play with the full BI -
You have the nutz, would you rarther win £100 or £200 ?
--
to simplify - when you start in a MTT with 100 bigs this is the same as a cash game
So how you play an MTT in the first level is how you should approach your cash game
hope this helps

scotty77

buying in for smaller wouldn't work as the rest of the table would be playing deep

at the latter end of MTTs most people tend to have 15-30bb wheras on a cash table you'll usually find one short stack/3 100bb stacks and a couple between 150/200bb so the situation is totally different.

cash is a far more skilled game and the only way to learn is through experience of playing deep.