In Response to Re: DYM bubble is it a fold??? : so not the point Posted by TWRAMYEP
If this was a standard sit and go or a MTT i think its an easy call as the money is weighted towards the top. But it isnt you only need to get in the top 3.
I still think that if you feel there are weaker players left there doesnt seem much point in making this call.
If you fold and go on to cash your happy, if you bubble you wish you made the call
Rancid, you gotta remember, you're not trying to come 1st.
Yes you're right in some ways about it being like a cash bubble in an MTT except in an MTT often a min cash means very little and it's worth going for the win so you can't tighten up around the bubble.
Imagine if it was an MTT bubble, there's been 200 runners (£2 BI, prize pool £400), bubble is 20th, and instead of it being 1st prize being say £180 and then working down from there, instead EVERYONE gets £20, 20th gets £20 and so does 1st place. Do you really think that the bubble would play out the same way? Cos thats the difference between an MTT bubble and a DYM
Rancid, you gotta remember, you're not trying to come 1st. Yes you're right in some ways about it being like a cash bubble in an MTT except in an MTT often a min cash means very little and it's worth going for the win so you can't tighten up around the bubble. Imagine if it was an MTT bubble, there's been 200 runners (£2 BI, prize pool £400), bubble is 20th, and instead of it being 1st prize being say £180 and then working down from there, instead EVERYONE gets £20, 20th gets £20 and so does 1st place. Do you really think that the bubble would play out the same way? Cos thats the difference between an MTT bubble and a DYM Posted by Lambert180
I am confused lolz I don't really play DYM's but for me it's simples: Sit out and don't play unless you have the nutz and maybe you will sqeeze through, this just sounds like playing tight on a mtt cash bubble. Or just pick your balls up and play when the blinds get to about 75/150. When thr blinds get to 75/150 how the **** do you fold AK So basically we only going to be getting it in with AA and our stack is steadily decreasing. This just sounds like a great time to be shoving with air lol as people are only going to be calling with a tiny percentage of hands so the odds are in our favour )
Rancid, to be a consistent winner at DYMs, beat the rake and the rubbish ROI per game, you have to have a pretty high win rate... right??
So like I said in my first post here, if you're against QJ or lower, you're only 60/40 which isn't great considering how often you need to cash in these and how often you'll lose a 60/40.
Then what if it's 22- QQ you're up against, 50/50, again, not good enough cos you need to cash much more than 50% of DYMs.
or better still it's AA/KK and you're a massive underdog.
And lets not forget, if she gets it in here, she's playing for her stack. So you're playing for your stack when a very high % of the time, it's a losing play cos you need to cash about 60% just to break even which you won't do with the above odds.
Rancid, to be a consistent winner at DYMs, beat the rake and the rubbish ROI per game, you have to have a pretty high win rate... right?? So like I said in my first post here, if you're against QJ or lower, you're only 60/40 which isn't great considering how often you need to cash in these and how often you'll lose a 60/40. Then what if it's 22- QQ you're up against, 50/50, again, not good enough cos you need to cash much more than 50% of DYMs. or better still it's AA/KK and you're a massive underdog. And lets not forget, if she gets it in here, she's playing for her stack. So you're playing for your stack when a very high % of the time, it's a losing play cos you need to cash about 60% just to break even which you won't do with the above odds. Posted by Lambert180
I played this hand so bad and called and ran into queens or sumin along them lines i know it should be a fold but multi tabling ruined my game cheers for input and good to see what i thought was a mistake is a mistake
Am with Pianoplaya, an open shove is likely to be called by a hand thats beatin you. you were right to raise and then evaluate. Whether you call or fold would have to be based on the villians play in earlier rounds. Only you know what he/she was doing during play.
The move is either protecting a low pair or weaker ace than yours or is trapping you with a strong hand AA, KK, QQ or even AQ, AJ. The Villian may believe AQ to winning here and tryin to trap you with it praying for a call.
All you can do is process this information in the few seconds you have and call or fold Neither is a bad play, just apply the logic and hope for the right result.
Assuming you are 60 % to win, if you call 60% of time you win .33 of prizepool, 40% you win 0 so $EV is ~0.19 of prizepool Running rough stacks if you fold thru ICM calculator, you have about $EV of ~0.24 of prizepool. Its possible I used calculator wrongly though Also if villains fold all worse hands openshoving is going to be pretty good here, esp as we flip with some of calling range Posted by grantorino
yep open shoving is good here already did the icm calc.
Rancid, you gotta remember, you're not trying to come 1st. Yes you're right in some ways about it being like a cash bubble in an MTT except in an MTT often a min cash means very little and it's worth going for the win so you can't tighten up around the bubble. Imagine if it was an MTT bubble, there's been 200 runners (£2 BI, prize pool £400), bubble is 20th, and instead of it being 1st prize being say £180 and then working down from there, instead EVERYONE gets £20, 20th gets £20 and so does 1st place. Do you really think that the bubble would play out the same way? Cos thats the difference between an MTT bubble and a DYM Posted by Lambert180
^ this ^
You're only going to get one prize ( 2 x your entry fee). That's all you're playing for, to oulast 1 more person. that's the finishing post. You can't do better, but you can do worse if you lose the flip (assuming it is even a flip) if you risk it you either guarantee that you'll get paid or you destroy yourself & make the rest of the game much harder. It might sound nitty, but I think you can wait for better spots, or at least to see a cheap flop that you connect with.
at that stage it seems unnecessary to risk it, bearing in mind that if you're a regular DYM player, one loss sets you back 2 x wins.
I played this hand so bad and called and ran into queens or sumin along them lines i know it should be a fold but multi tabling ruined my game cheers for input and good to see what i thought was a mistake is a mistake Posted by Batkin88
Hi, this isn't the worst call in the world but I can offer a couple of suggestions....
If you had been up against a couple of calling stations in the blinds this is an easy shove (and my standard approach with this hand at this stage of the game) as they will often call way too light, making this a profitable move.
However you had noted already that you felt this player was pretty weak, and would only reshove a premium hand that you were racing with/dominated by. If you find a very weak player in BB raise/folding is absolutely fine but you could easily adjust your bet sizing. I note that at 75/150 blinds you raised to 3 x BB (450). You do not usually need to raise so much at this point in the game, and my standard raise here would be only 350 (approx 2.3 BB) yet against a weak player this is just as effective as a bigger raise but it saves a few extra chips in those rare occasions that they have something better.
Laying down AK this late in the game is never going to be easy though.
Comments
I still think that if you feel there are weaker players left there doesnt seem much point in making this call.
If you fold and go on to cash your happy, if you bubble you wish you made the call
Yes you're right in some ways about it being like a cash bubble in an MTT except in an MTT often a min cash means very little and it's worth going for the win so you can't tighten up around the bubble.
Imagine if it was an MTT bubble, there's been 200 runners (£2 BI, prize pool £400), bubble is 20th, and instead of it being 1st prize being say £180 and then working down from there, instead EVERYONE gets £20, 20th gets £20 and so does 1st place. Do you really think that the bubble would play out the same way? Cos thats the difference between an MTT bubble and a DYM
I don't really play DYM's but for me it's simples:
Sit out and don't play unless you have the nutz and maybe you will sqeeze through, this just sounds like playing tight on a mtt cash bubble. Or just pick your balls up and play when the blinds get to about 75/150.
When thr blinds get to 75/150 how the **** do you fold AK
This just sounds like a great time to be shoving with air lol as people are only going to be calling with a tiny percentage of hands so the odds are in our favour )
I will try some and see how I get on lolz
So like I said in my first post here, if you're against QJ or lower, you're only 60/40 which isn't great considering how often you need to cash in these and how often you'll lose a 60/40.
Then what if it's 22- QQ you're up against, 50/50, again, not good enough cos you need to cash much more than 50% of DYMs.
or better still it's AA/KK and you're a massive underdog.
And lets not forget, if she gets it in here, she's playing for her stack. So you're playing for your stack when a very high % of the time, it's a losing play cos you need to cash about 60% just to break even which you won't do with the above odds.
What strat would you say i should try
edit: just been reading JC's blog on DYM's
I played this hand so bad and called and ran into queens or sumin along them lines i know it should be a fold but multi tabling ruined my game
cheers for input and good to see what i thought was a mistake is a mistake
Whether you call or fold would have to be based on the villians play in earlier rounds. Only you know what he/she was doing during play.
The move is either protecting a low pair or weaker ace than yours or is trapping you with a strong hand AA, KK, QQ or even AQ, AJ. The Villian may believe AQ to winning here and tryin to trap you with it praying for a call.
All you can do is process this information in the few seconds you have and call or fold
Assuming you are 60 % to win, if you call 60% of time you win .33 of prizepool, 40% you win 0 so $EV is ~0.19 of prizepool
Running rough stacks if you fold thru ICM calculator, you have about $EV of ~0.24 of prizepool. Its possible I used calculator wrongly though
Also if villains fold all worse hands openshoving is going to be pretty good here, esp as we flip with some of calling range
You're only going to get one prize ( 2 x your entry fee). That's all you're playing for, to oulast 1 more person. that's the finishing post.
You can't do better, but you can do worse if you lose the flip (assuming it is even a flip)
if you risk it you either guarantee that you'll get paid or you destroy yourself & make the rest of the game much harder.
It might sound nitty, but I think you can wait for better spots, or at least to see a cheap flop that you connect with.
at that stage it seems unnecessary to risk it, bearing in mind that if you're a regular DYM player, one loss sets you back 2 x wins.
what did you do in the end..?
If you had been up against a couple of calling stations in the blinds this is an easy shove (and my standard approach with this hand at this stage of the game) as they will often call way too light, making this a profitable move.
However you had noted already that you felt this player was pretty weak, and would only reshove a premium hand that you were racing with/dominated by. If you find a very weak player in BB raise/folding is absolutely fine but you could easily adjust your bet sizing. I note that at 75/150 blinds you raised to 3 x BB (450). You do not usually need to raise so much at this point in the game, and my standard raise here would be only 350 (approx 2.3 BB) yet against a weak player this is just as effective as a bigger raise but it saves a few extra chips in those rare occasions that they have something better.
Laying down AK this late in the game is never going to be easy though.