Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying

BigBluster

Hold 'Em is meant to be a game of subtlety and skill, out-thinking, out-maneouvring and outplaying your opponents over all five streets. Instead, it's become nothing like this at all.

Modern poker means putting your opponents on a range then either shoving of folding. Or maybe seeing a flop, then shoving or folding. Ram and jam.

All subtlety and sophistication has gone out of the game. Why bother with a semi-bluff check-raise on the flop to get a free card on the river, when all your opponents do is shove or fold? This 'shove or fold' mentality is killing the game. Same as 'First-in All-in' when the blinds get high - everyone does it and the only way to respond is to put them on a range and either fold or shove yourself.

No-one will be playing no-limit Hold 'Em in five years time. It will go the same way as 5 card stud. The game is dying.

webby234

i will gladly bet that in 5 years time folk are still playing hold em, its got the world in the palm of its hands

scotty77

It will be dead by 2012 when the world ends, obviously

But seriously LOL W TF

BigBluster

OK, no-one is a huge exaggeration - people still play 5 card stud and 3 card brag. But hold 'em will be knocked off its perch as people look for more sophistication and less bingo.

MH45706

How about a bit of optimism Bluster..id hazard a guess that more people are playing Hold-em than ever. Whilst the style may be changing, its called progression. THe world moves on, one could compare it to cricket, in that 20/20 is taking over, whilst also improving the game. Overall id say its a bit dramatic to say hold-em is dying.

webby234

LONG LIVE HOLD EM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigBluster

If you go to any sites that offer hold'em and omaha, it used to be about 98% playing hold'em and 2% playing omaha. Those figures are shifting dramatically.

Don't be surprised to see hold'em go the way of the do-do: not that long ago, 5 card stud was the game, then 5 card draw, then 7 card draw, then 7 card stud, then Razz, then 8 or better......there's nothing sacred about hold 'em.

DeuceAK_47

I agree with you to some extent if your talking about a fast structured tourny or turbo sng (although loads of people still dont follow this strategy-where the dead money come from), But in any cash game over 200bb deep there is loads of play aswell as deepstacked tournys.

I personally think holdem will be as or more popular in five years time, especailly when the americans can play on all sites again. (might even set off another boom if were lucky.)

Neway if it does die ......................... we will still have OMAHA!!! lol

NICON

If Americas online ban was not in force The NL Holdem 10k main event would still be drawing bigger and bigger fields than ever before. Holdem still has all the sophistication it ever had......NONE it's a game of skill and chance for money that has only just managed to be thought of as acceptable rather than seedy in some peoples minds. It's a great game and the variation of poker chosen by most to start there love affair with the great game.

I like to play PLO every now and again but i always return to Holdem as the swings make it so interesting. The poker boom will not last for ever but there are now so many players involved in poker and holdem specifically that it will never Die. A new generation of players already exist ready to take the game through the next half century (my 10 year old daughter alreaady plays me for fun, and she's going to be good "if you can't afford a pension have a gifted child")

Holdem is here to stay, it's the format chosen to establish the world champion (and in honesty the only format that works on TV which fuels the poker boom) and as long as the WSOP main event is holdem then new people will be fishing away at the tables

Torryladd

Glad you mentioned 3 card brag which I started playing in the pubs 35 years ago along with napolion and luvved it, the young ones I play poker with now have never heard of them.

I think holdem will go the same way.

webby234

i used to love a game of brag and cleaned up many of times in the local pub, wish poker was as easy

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying:

Hold 'Em is meant to be a game of subtlety and skill, out-thinking, out-maneouvring and outplaying your opponents over all five streets. Instead, it's become nothing like this at all. Modern poker means putting your opponents on a range then either shoving of folding. Or maybe seeing a flop, then shoving or folding. Ram and jam. All subtlety and sophistication has gone out of the game. Why bother with a semi-bluff check-raise on the flop to get a free card on the river, when all your opponents do is shove or fold? This 'shove or fold' mentality is killing the game. Same as 'First-in All-in' when the blinds get high - everyone does it and the only way to respond is to put them on a range and either fold or shove yourself. No-one will be playing no-limit Hold 'Em in five years time. It will go the same way as 5 card stud. The game is dying.
Posted by BigBluster

hi mate,the game you are talking about has all but disappeared in afraid..
the boom of internet poker has seen a explosion of uber aggressive players who
 have no qualms adout risking their entire stack on a fulsh draw/gutshot etc,the game has evolved and people will have to adjust to the faster aggressive pace of the game......
cheers dave

BigBluster

The way we used to play 3 card brag, if you looked at your cards you had to pay double the bet of anyone who didn't look. You'd always get some idiot going crazy without looking at his cards.....and a prial of threes was the best hand, not aces.

BigBluster

In Response to Re: Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying:

In Response to Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying : hi mate,the game you are talking about has all but disappeared in afraid.. the boom of internet poker has seen a explosion of uber aggressive players who  have no qualms adout risking their entire stack on a fulsh draw/gutshot etc,the game has evolved and people will have to adjust to the faster aggressive pace of the game...... cheers dave
Posted by DAVEYZZ

You're right of course. Maybe it's just evolution. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

BANDICOOT

Good post Daveyzz

scotty77

In Response to Re: Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying:

In Response to Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying : hi mate,the game you are talking about has all but disappeared in afraid.. the boom of internet poker has seen a explosion of uber aggressive players who  have no qualms adout risking their entire stack on a fulsh draw/gutshot etc,the game has evolved and people will have to adjust to the faster aggressive pace of the game...... cheers dave
Posted by DAVEYZZ

Daveyzz, the king of the Velocity tournie, moaning about aggressive poker LOL.

NLHE will always be the king of poker.  It is simple to pick up, it is easy to play and all the poker sites/TV shows run with it. Most other forms of poker are difficult to follow on TV and also more difficult to learn.  PLO has been the game of choice for the high end pros for 3/4 years on the big sites, however while there has been a small uptake, it is still a drop in the ocean.  

The other games you talk about playing down the pub etc you could only play now and then when the right group was there.  NLHE is accessible to anyone with a PC, anywhere in the world 24/7.  

It is never, ever going away.

webby234

very true, its like the world without light, cant live without it

MereNovice

In Response to Re: Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying:

In Response to Re: Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying : Daveyzz, the king of the Velocity tournie, moaning about aggressive poker LOL. NLHE will always be the king of poker.  It is simple to pick up, it is easy to play and all the poker sites/TV shows run with it. Most other forms of poker are difficult to follow on TV and also more difficult to learn.  PLO has been the game of choice for the high end pros for 3/4 years on the big sites, however while there has been a small uptake, it is still a drop in the ocean.   The other games you talk about playing down the pub etc you could only play now and then when the right group was there.  NLHE is accessible to anyone with a PC, anywhere in the world 24/7.   It is never, ever going away.
Posted by scotty77

That's a rash statement.
It may not disappear in my lifetime but I reckon that there's a very good chance that it will dwindle into insignificance during yours.
When you're older, you'll understand these things better. ;-)

Apparently even hopscotch isn't as popular with the kidz as it once was. :-)

Tikay10

I think BigBluster has a point.

Texas Hold 'Em will never die, but, relative to other games, yes, it's current dominance will be reduced.

Flop games have shot to prominence only very recently, in relative terms. It was not that long ago that the WSOP was based on Stud! (A truly beautiful game, by the way).

Things never stand still.

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying:

In Response to Re: Modern Hold 'Em - the game is dying : Daveyzz, the king of the Velocity tournie, moaning about aggressive poker LOL. NLHE will always be the king of poker.  It is simple to pick up, it is easy to play and all the poker sites/TV shows run with it. Most other forms of poker are difficult to follow on TV and also more difficult to learn.  PLO has been the game of choice for the high end pros for 3/4 years on the big sites, however while there has been a small uptake, it is still a drop in the ocean.   The other games you talk about playing down the pub etc you could only play now and then when the right group was there.  NLHE is accessible to anyone with a PC, anywhere in the world 24/7.   It is never, ever going away.
Posted by scotty77

lol nice one scotty! i wasnt moaning tho i love the aggressive game online,and prefer long blinds/deepstacks live...
dont know about being king of velocity tho,ive only won it 8 times!!

webby234

8 times!!! thats some feat, maybe sky should offer rewards if players win a bit tourney like 10 times for instance?