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ummm

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited October 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Readless 4th hand of 7.15 deepie.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Poker_Fail Small blind  10.00 10.00 5000.00
The_Don90 Big blind  20.00 30.00 4990.00
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
   
 Raise  100.00 130.00 4960.00
Russ76 Fold     
free-ride Fold     
Call  100.00 230.00 4870.00
Poker_Fail Fold     
The_Don90 Raise  320.00 550.00 4670.00
 Call  240.00 790.00 4720.00
 Call  240.00 1030.00 4630.00
Flop
  
  • 5
  • 8
  • Q
   
The_Don90 Bet  772.50 1802.50 3897.50
 Fold     
 Call  772.50 2575.00 3857.50
Turn
  
  • 9
   
The_Don90 Bet  1931.25 4506.25 1966.25
 All-in  3857.50 8363.75 0.00
The_Don90 ....
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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited October 2011
    I would just call preflop personally as it's a 5x raise UTG with a call and you're gonna be OOP having to cbet big.

    Flop fine maybe bit less.

    Turn once you bet that much it's gotta be bad to fold.
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  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited October 2011
    i would call pre allowing a lower c - bet on flop. Your never ahead here in my eyes at best he is calling with top pair anda flush draw so i would fold just shouldn't really be in this spot unless you know he is stacking off light and your happy to stick it in
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011

    flat pre and pot control, its a deepstack

    as played you have to stack off and hope hes bad enough to have KQ or QJ

    you played this far too agressivly readless in a deepie imo, its only ace high



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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited October 2011
    Don't mind the 3bet at all against these type of players, they'll call u with lots of worse Ax and Qx hands, as well as a load of other junk. Basically they're never folding, and only 4betting better.

    Dunno about post flop, I'd never ever be folding with your hand in this tournament, but that doesn't neccesserily make it right.

    Think pre flop is fine tho.
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  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited October 2011
    imo i think ur over-playing ur hand, i agree with greg..far too aggressive early in a deep stack tourney. Play super tight at these early levels or you will be out as quickly as you sat down..
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited October 2011
    really dislike 3bet pre to UTG 5x open in the first orbit of a deepstack, if we somehow manage to win preflop we've increased our stack size by a massive 5%!!!!!

    if not we have to play postflop oop readless in an inflated pot

    i think your flop&turn sizing should be smaller, snap fold to minraise.

    tempted to say check turn for pot control but that might just be results orientated
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: ummm:
    really dislike 3bet pre to UTG 5x open in the first orbit of a deepstack, if we somehow manage to win preflop we've increased our stack size by a massive 5%!!!!! if not we have to play postflop oop readless in an inflated pot i think your flop&turn sizing should be smaller, snap fold to minraise. tempted to say check turn for pot control but that might just be results orientated
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    agree with this 100%
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: ummm:
    really dislike 3bet pre to UTG 5x open in the first orbit of a deepstack, if we somehow manage to win preflop we've increased our stack size by a massive 5%!!!!! if not we have to play postflop oop readless in an inflated pot i think your flop&turn sizing should be smaller, snap fold to minraise. tempted to say check turn for pot control but that might just be results orientated
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    I think the turn is defo a check readless.  We've reduced all of the hands we can bet for value from to KQ only (and even that's a little loose to see turn up here a decent amount of the time).

    Don, my first reaction was 'how has this pot become so bloated?'  Defintely think we needed to control this pot better.  OOP and readless we're pretty much blind as to how well we've flopped versus the villain 3bet calling range.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    think flat and c/c for control

    assuming the 5x raise is going to be worse than AQ is kinda risky readless

    3 betting AQ this deep OOP imo is not required

    Think about how would you play this hand 250 bigs deep in cash, AQ doesn't warrant going to war does it :()


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  • MohicanMohican Member Posts: 1,435
    edited October 2011
    Putting all that's been said, on the turn he's got 60% of his starting stack in the pot when hes shoved on he surely has to call, being pot comitted and all that. Or does he have enough left to make a fold and carry on in the tourney?
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  • MkeItRainMkeItRain Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: ummm:
    really dislike 3bet pre to UTG 5x open in the first orbit of a deepstack, if we somehow manage to win preflop we've increased our stack size by a massive 5%!!!!! if not we have to play postflop oop readless in an inflated pot i think your flop&turn sizing should be smaller, snap fold to minraise. tempted to say check turn for pot control but that might just be results orientated
    Posted by LOL_RAISE

    +1 bad spot to 3bet preflop as we fold out all the dominated hands, AT/QJ etc and once he's called preflop and called the flop i kinda expect you're going to get shown ACEs or KINGs here quite a lot.

    tbh I would actually check the flop as you can rep AK/JJ a bit better and MIGHT get 1 (or possibly 2) streets of 9's or T's, you're hand isn't that venreable either so chking through wont be too disasterous, there is no world where e can get 3 streets of value in this hand. Agreed your flop and turn sizing should be smaller, this board is so dry we really want weaker parts of his range to keep in the hand, so i'd bet something like 40% flop 50% turn if I was going to bet/bet for value.

    As played turn is a mandatory fold, you have the best hand hardly ever and I think your getting shown KK or AA more often than not

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: ummm:
    In Response to Re: ummm : +1 bad spot to 3bet preflop as we fold out all the dominated hands, AT/QJ etc and once he's called preflop and called the flop i kinda expect you're going to get shown ACEs or KINGs here quite a lot. tbh I would actually check the flop as you can rep AK/JJ a bit better and MIGHT get 1 (or possibly 2) streets of 9's or T's, you're hand isn't that venreable either so chking through wont be too disasterous, there is no world where e can get 3 streets of value in this hand. Agreed your flop and turn sizing should be smaller, this board is so dry we really want weaker parts of his range to keep in the hand, so i'd bet something like 40% flop 50% turn if I was going to bet/bet for value. As played turn is a mandatory fold, you have the best hand hardly ever and I think your getting shown KK or AA more often than not
    Posted by MkeItRain
    We definitely don't in this tourny. Which is why the 3b is good. imo.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited October 2011
    Lets be a little result orientated. Having seeing the results - below, whats are views now, do they stand?
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Poker_Fail Small blind  10.00 10.00 5000.00
    The_Don90 Big blind  20.00 30.00 4990.00
     Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
    		   
    kennybad Raise  100.00 130.00 4960.00
    Russ76 Fold     
    free-ride Fold     
    Rumen1gge Call  100.00 230.00 4870.00
    Poker_Fail Fold     
    The_Don90 Raise  320.00 550.00 4670.00
    kennybad Call  240.00 790.00 4720.00
    Rumen1gge Call  240.00 1030.00 4630.00
    Flop
      
    • 5
    • 8
    • Q
    		   
    The_Don90 Bet  772.50 1802.50 3897.50
    kennybad Fold     
    Rumen1gge Call  772.50 2575.00 3857.50
    Turn
      
    • 9
    		   
    The_Don90 Bet  1931.25 4506.25 1966.25
    Rumen1gge All-in  3857.50 8363.75 0.00
    The_Don90 Call  1926.25 10290.00 40.00
    The_Don90 Show
    • A
    • Q
    		   
    Rumen1gge Show
    • J
    • Q
    		   
    River
      
    • 10
    		   
    Rumen1gge Win Straight to the Queen 10290.00  10290.00
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011

    I would think you will be behind more often than not if you 3 bet pre
    So much more easy value in flatting and if your 4 bet your folding AQ right ? 

    This case you get called by a station, which is nice but it still doesn't make it the best thing to do the majority of the time

    You can pat yourself on the back this time but hey ho... 


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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited October 2011
    yeah you lost the hand so fold pre
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: ummm:
    yeah you lost the hand so fold pre
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    lol epic responce. i was referring to now that we have info on the villans calling range wou;d you recommened to play it diff.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: ummm:
    In Response to Re: ummm : lol epic responce. i was referring to now that we have info on the villans calling range wou;d you recommened to play it diff.
    Posted by The_Don90

    Is it really a reasonable assumption to make that all oppo in this MTT will  always call a 3 bet light, my simple answer is no.  I think forget about this hand In isolation and if you could run this same situation 100 times how many times are we going to the flop versus worse.

    If you have notes that oppo calls 3 bet light then it’s a good ploy but without reads then frankly I don’t like it.

    To think that you won this hand so therefore ie. Your 3 betting AQ OOP 100% of the time 250 bb deep then good luck. Think I would rarther 3 bet 67s OOP.

    thinks lol_raise is suggesting if your results orientated then you should fold pre because you lost the hand :P

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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited October 2011
    IMO this is super standard stack of in these you will be good alot of the time and the odd time you come up against a nit just a sigh

    i think played hand as i would
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67 Member Posts: 3,615
    edited October 2011
    I aint ever 3 betting pre with AQ in this hand , as stated by others its daft in a deepy to inflate pot like this as ya can be facing anything by any player here , as played i have to call the all-in tho
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited October 2011
    I'm sticking with what I said despite the results.  Readless I don't think KQ and QJ turn up enough to make this the correct line.
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