NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise

The_Don90

Jus started this table so this is my second or third hand i think. As most know im new to NL8 (again) so completely readless.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
madman11	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£8.00
The_Don90	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£7.88
ryder36	Sit out
	Your hole cards	10 K
madman11	Raise		£0.12	£0.24	£7.88
The_Don90	Call		£0.08	£0.32	£7.80
Flop
		2 8 4
The_Don90	Check
madman11	Bet		£0.16	£0.48	£7.72
The_Don90	Raise		£0.64	£1.12	£7.16
madman11	Call		£0.48	£1.60	£7.24
Turn
		K
The_Don90	Bet		£1.20	£2.80	£5.96
madman11	Raise		£2.40	£5.20	£4.84
The_Don90	????

grantorino

no idea what he has readless I flat

splashies

Hmmm yeh gotta call this on turn...

Tough decision on river though if he bets and you dont improve.

delaney09

dont really like the lead out on the turn him flatting the re raise on the flop looks like he could have bottom, middle set maybe even a raggy pair with an over card so he is flatting to see a blank turn maybe another 2,4,8 or his overcard then trying to get all his money in as he has tried... turn i probably check to him let him bet the £1.20 to £1.50 flat it and then re evaluate on the river
 obviously when the turn comes you think your huge there with the Kh FD and top pair but when he flats your raise on flop then min re raises you on turn theres literally no hands that you beat apart from getting there with your flush you have to be thinking 222,444 K2, K4 all probably in his range of hands, id say probably more chance of 2 pairs then sets i guess at this level they just probably bomb the pot with a set on the flop instead of flatting right?

 but just to mention Don i rarely play 6m cash and when i do play cash its mainly HU and have never played 8nl when he just clicks it back first thing going through my head is that i am behind but still have max 9 outs going into the river so i would probably flat turn as opposed to shoving it and hopefully get there on the river cause i would presume river if it is a spade the guy is not really going to slow down anyways

debdobs_67

He could easily have AK here but with what youve invested already just call and reavaluate on the river , prob gonna be diff here though

pod1

you got to flat it mate. spade would be nice or a cheap river!

DrSharp

Your getting good pot odds to flat and give you a chance to improve.

River if you miss? very awkward. not sure you if you can lead river if you miss, but its weak. I think the river decision would be a very good question.

jugglegeek

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:

Your getting good pot odds to flat and give you a chance to improve. River if you miss? very awkward. not sure you if you can lead river if you miss, but its weak. I think the river decision would be a very good question.
Posted by DrSharp

pre fine, flop fine.

I wouldn't lead out the turn. check call is better for pot control (Your hand isn't that good). As played flat call the turn and re-**** on the river. Jam a blank on the river but if a spade comes you might want to try a small comedy bet. If you jam the spade river you don't get called by just a pair, comedy bet might get jammed on ;-)

Also why are you playing 3-handed? I find that if we are playing super tight and betting value hands then shorter handed tables just means you pay more blinds.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise : pre fine, flop fine. I wouldn't lead out the turn. check call is better for pot control (Your hand isn't that good). As played flat call the turn and re-**** on the river. Jam a blank on the river but if a spade comes you might want to try a small comedy bet. If you jam the spade river you don't get called by just a pair, comedy bet might get jammed on ;-) Also why are you playing 3-handed? I find that if we are playing super tight and betting value hands then shorter handed tables just means you pay more blinds.
Posted by jugglegeek

i opened the table. There was a full stack. I come from an mtt background which means im very comfortable short handed. Also allows me to widen me range.

Also your saying my hand isnt that strong here. Im pretty huge in terms of the board.

Batkin88

i would shove but i guess thats the mtt background try and win it two ways
What was your reason for betting out turn?? To see cheap river or to entice reraise i dont think he is flatting a set here at this level would rather put him on an overpair or A8 (Bad if there both spades)

rancid

prefer c/c on flop -
can't see how your ahead on the turn -
call and hope to see a spade -

The_Don90

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:

i would shove but i guess thats the mtt background try and win it two ways What was your reason for betting out turn?? To see cheap river or to entice reraise i dont think he is flatting a set here at this level would rather put him on an overpair or A8 (Bad if there both spades)
Posted by Batkin88

Value

Dudeskin8

Yeah just call turn but not sure why as you're dead unless hit a club and if he has a set are you getting the right odds? If it's 2 pair than you have more outs but still not happy about it overall.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:

Yeah just call turn but not sure why as you're dead unless hit a club and if he has a set are you getting the right odds? If it's 2 pair than you have more outs but still not happy about it overall.
Posted by Dudeskin8

what range does our oppo have here in ur opinion mate?

Dudeskin8

Well he's minraised pre could be ATC then half pot bet on flop which is standard cbet size, however he calls your raise so must have something could be spade draw too but unlikely with you having that draw, maybe just a 1 pair hand (that becomes 2pair on turn) or maybe a set slow played IP as he knows you'll bet again and he can get it in on turn. I REALLY can't see it being a like AK/KQ/KJ after calling the flop raise but you never know. The turn minraise IMO is always a fairly big hand and fish love the click back play.

Overall though like I said I wouldn't be massive happy about flatting turn raise when I know I need to hit flush to 100% sure.

The_Don90

going to post the results now as i can clearly see ive made a mistake. Ive discussed this with Dohhhh outwith aswell and he rekons ive over valued my hand here.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
madman11	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£8.00
The_Don90	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£7.88
ryder36	Sit out
	Your hole cards	10 K
madman11	Raise		£0.12	£0.24	£7.88
The_Don90	Call		£0.08	£0.32	£7.80
Flop
		2 8 4
The_Don90	Check
madman11	Bet		£0.16	£0.48	£7.72
The_Don90	Raise		£0.64	£1.12	£7.16
madman11	Call		£0.48	£1.60	£7.24
Turn
		K
The_Don90	Bet		£1.20	£2.80	£5.96
madman11	Raise		£2.40	£5.20	£4.84
The_Don90	All-in		£5.96	£11.16	£0.00
madman11	All-in		£4.84	£16.00	£0.00
madman11	Unmatched bet		£0.08	£15.92	£0.08
madman11	Show	4 K
The_Don90	Show	10 K
River
		6
The_Don90	Win	Flush to the King	£15.22		£15.22

However i have one last uestion or all. We take the flatting like and river comes Q of hearts (example) how do we play.

grantorino

flat turn, c/f river unimproved seems fine to me.  

The_Don90

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:

flat turn, c/f river unimproved seems fine to me.  
Posted by grantorino

ty mate. this was my biggest worry at the time. i guess i wanted to avoid the tough river deisison, and was hoping i was against an overplayed A8 type hand.

debdobs_67

Nice one for ure notes though , him callin ure flop reraise with 2nd pair on a flushing board

The_Don90

In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:

Nice one for ure notes though , him callin ure flop reraise with 2nd pair on a flushing board
Posted by debdobs_67

yea defo. the good thing about nl8 is there not alot of players that are new to me (vast amount play NL4 too) and because only 3-6 tables run art a time my notebook filling up fast

grantorino

I'd put in your notes it was hu, it makes a big difference when someone makes a call like on flop, as does the fact there shouldnt be that many made hands in your range