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30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
edited November 2011 in The Poker Clinic
The opponent is a new tight reg, no history between us, seems like a rock solid tag.

Call, fold or shove?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
haidyboy Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £29.25
Patito Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £93.19
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • A
     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £1.20 £1.65 £37.57
horny309 Fold     
xxxCall  £1.20 £2.85 £38.56
Challak Fold     
haidyboy Fold     
Patito Fold     
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 3
  • 6
     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £2.10 £4.95 £35.47
xxxRaise  £9.15 £14.10 £29.41
DOHHHHHHH      
      
      
  

   
  
   
   
     
   
     
       
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Comments

  • debdobs_67debdobs_67 Member Posts: 3,615
    edited November 2011
    This is a standard shove for me , its the way i always play this
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited November 2011
    Does your usual table image come into play here?

    Were 30.8% @ worst, (other than when he's flopped a str flsh) when this "Tag" has called us with 45/

    Against a set with a D we still have 44 />% + punishing all overs pairs with a D.

    I think I make it £21 allowing him to jam rest.

    If he has KdQd/Jd you've nearly got your 35% :p
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  • RandomRivRandomRiv Member Posts: 90
    edited November 2011
    Im shipping here. Only time I'm not is if we have history and they are the type of player who only goes all in like this with a very good made hand.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:
    This is a standard shove for me , its the way i always play this
    Posted by debdobs_67
    Are you hoping for a call or a fold when you shove? Do u think he's ever folding anything after making that raise?

    Can he call with worse? (if so, what)....

    Can he fold better hands that we have? (if so, what).......


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  • RandomRivRandomRiv Member Posts: 90
    edited November 2011
    Re-looking at this shipping may not be the right move. Didn't realise how deep they were. Only put £4 in the pot and have to shove £35 here on what is more than likely gonna need to improve. Tough spot.
    Deep stack isn't one of my strengths so I'm sitting this one out and I'm interested in what will be advised
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited November 2011
    replied to your PM doh.  Post finished hand at some point though!

    I think you flatted, folded turn fwiw :p (lol)
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2011

    No 3 bet pre, rock solid tag – flopped flush or set

    Oppo ain’t folding

    Can you call here, with implied I think yes but will oppo pay you off  


    still call, tough one if ace falls on turn :s

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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited November 2011
    Why would you ever call here?

    To c/f non diamond turn?

    For me decision always has to be made on flop.  To 3bet commit/shove or fold.
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  • JackoG9JackoG9 Member Posts: 69
    edited November 2011
    Looks very much like a set protecting against flush draw
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:
    Why would you ever call here? To c/f non diamond turn? For me decision always has to be made on flop.  To 3bet commit/shove or fold.
    Posted by AMYBR
    Yeah it's always like this with this type of draw, if we call do we get paid anyway.
    Therefore are we shoving just to increase the risk-reward ratio, for the times we hit is it worth it v the times we don't hit.
    We are hitting 1 in 3 so...maybe a better maths person can work this out

    In game I normally just shove these spots but with no FE it's like grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I hope oppo has 1 diamond

    If we have direct odds then we can call and c/f turn all day, but with implied it makes the call maybe not very good :()

    I really am not sure either way to be honest because turn is always going to be a problem



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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited November 2011

    is noone considering folding??

    I think we are behind the majority of times here, To a flopped set or flush.

    I agree with amybr the choice is between folding and shipping! If we ship it will prob fold out opairs imo 

    any sets and made flushes will snap.

    I think this could be a nitty fold in conclusion!!

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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited November 2011
    sorry greg, cant entertain the idea mate

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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited November 2011
    You need ~45% equity to get it in assuming he never folds. I think you nearly have to have this v a reasonable range, could be wrong though. An indication of what his range for flatting pre is likely to be would help
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:
    is noone considering folding?? I think we are behind the majority of times here, To a flopped set or flush. I agree with amybr the choice is between folding and shipping! If we ship it will prob fold out opairs imo  any sets and made flushes will snap. I think this could be a nitty fold in conclusion!!
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    You really think a solid tag raise/folds overpairs on this board?
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:
    In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop. : You really think a solid tag raise/folds overpairs on this board?
    Posted by grantorino
    not after talking to dohhhhhh lol

    solid tag should not be raising worse on this board with no history with dohhhhh lol

    if hes raising opairs hes looking to get it in (with the diamond as back up like QQd)

    dohhhhh is crushed innit
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited November 2011
    well I think a solid tag should pretty much always be either flatting or raising to get it in with an overpair there against almost anyone
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited November 2011
    Do you not think he would re - raise pre flop with QQ/KK Idonkcallu ???

    I ruled those hands out for that reason.

    GT dunno if u've seen but I sent u a pm.

    Thanx 4 all replies so far. 
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited November 2011
    Its a really interesting post tbh DOH.  It highlights a dividing line:

    Those playing their own hand vs those playing their hand vs opponents range.

    Good thread.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:
    Its a really interesting post tbh DOH.  It highlights a dividing line: Those playing their own hand vs those playing their hand vs opponents range. Good thread.
    Posted by AMYBR
    oooooooooh, am I a red or a blue?

    Doh pm received, reply sent.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2011
     CALL - final answer ) basis - up against flopped flush or set

    going on the basis that we win 1 in 3 and stack oppo when we hit and oppo never folds to the shove

    If you look at how much we risk against the reward, if we call we risk less for more profit long term
    If we shove then we are risking more for less reward for the one time we hit

    over the long term I think it's more profitable, I could be wrong but.... I am sure this is good

    I may not be right but hey, maybe someone knows


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