I love this tournement, but do fear that it will soon be scrapped if the numbers don't pick up. Can I just make the point that if there were only 7 runners in a £22 entry £300 guarantee tournement that it would represent very good value. £22 x 7 = £154 paid for £300 dosh paid out, that is the sort of tournement you should be entering Dav1964! BTW, I very annoyingly bubbled last night, with my KK busted by QQ. The numbers do also pick up when Tikay does play in it, I think some people like the chance to take him on (mentioning no names Ric*Orfo*d). Posted by SoLack
I share that view.
I also forgot about the £300 Guarantee when debating last night's numbers. I had a bad morning, eh?
But Sky Poker won't keep subsiding it, they just won't, it makes no sense so to do.
6 wouldnt get paid with 7 entries, im sure Posted by nirvana29
At present, they would - the whole thing was set up on the basis of all 6 Finalists being paid, the Players demanded it, & voted on it, back in the summer.
But you are also right - because if it dropped that low - 7 or 8 Runners - I think the Tourney would be dropped off the Schedule.
Hi Tikay, I have posted this twice before, cant a satelite be organised for this event even if it is the night before for the next day if time doesnt allow.
I cant afford this buy in every night and enjoyed the cheaper one the other night when you got busted with trip two's lol
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : Hi Phil - my apologies, I 'Scoped the Comp, & they show PROFIT, not the Prizes. So, with the Top 6 all making a Profit, I'll defo play it tonight. As you say, GREAT comp, but it be greaterer if we could muster more Runners. Posted by Tikay10
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : I share that view. I also forgot about the £300 Guarantee when debating last night's numbers. I had a bad morning, eh? But Sky Poker won't keep subsiding it, they just won't, it makes no sense so to do. Posted by Tikay10
Hi TiKay,
Are Sky offering the guarantee in the hope that enough players sign up so they don't have to pay some of it out?
If enough players don't turn up on a regular basis the tournament will be removed?
In other words the guarantee is only there to tempt players in so the guarantee isn't used.
This seems a little disingenuous.
If they set up a guaranteed tournament, they shouldn't moan if some part of that guarantee has to be spent.
Hi Tikay, I have posted this twice before, cant a satelite be organised for this event even if it is the night before for the next day if time doesnt allow. I cant afford this buy in every night and enjoyed the cheaper one the other night when you got busted with trip two's lol In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : Posted by Torryladd
I don't know Torry, but I'll send the Thread to Sky-Bernie & see what he says.
My exit with Trip Two's? (Which was in the less expensive, but faster-structured, 7pm tikay Sleepie, yes?).
It was a right comical exit, really, & I've not stopped chuckling about it since - & it was 2 days ago!
I was 3-Tabling, & sort of sleeping, I don't really get involved in hands early doors, except Premiuns, & obvious situations (squuezes, & priced-in Calls), I prefer to wait until things settle down, & early-paced sprinters have shot their Usain.
The Table clicked up, I was in the BB with K-2, nobody Raised, 6 players had limped in, I just pre-clicked Check & went to another Table. Blinds were 25-50 I think.
Th Table clicked up again, & I saw the Flop was 2-2-3. Happy days! I Passed my hands on my other Tables & settled down to work out how to get paid. Easy game this.
Checked all round.
The Turn came a total blank, so I stuck 200 in, to see if I could get on. It's 2-2-3-x, Rainbow.
It went Pass, Pass, Pass, until it got to the Button. Who made it.........
6,000!
What? I'm sat there trying to figure what he'd do that with! 6,000 into about 400!
Well, no matter, we don't get all our chips in at this stage in a deepie, unless we are bonkers, or calling with the absolutes, so I decided to Pass. But my Mouse Finger thought different, & Called.
He turned over 2-3!
I had done a quick "what can he have" think, & I thought 2-3 was a no-no. Wrong!
hi all, i playedthe 22 last night for the first time in ages, and although was small, it was an interesting game. it didnt feel clicky and the likes of phil and mackem made me feel quite welcome(either that or they just wanted me money!!), came 8th after a couple of hrs( to a very dubious call i might add, 80% of his stack on a straight flush draw). but was a good night. quality play by quality players, no mad b u g g e r s calling with air.
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : Hi TiKay, Are Sky offering the guarantee in the hope that enough players sign up so they don't have to pay some of it out? If enough players don't turn up on a regular basis the tournament will be removed? In other words the guarantee is only there to tempt players in so the guarantee isn't used. This seems a little disingenuous. If they set up a guaranteed tournament, they shouldn't moan if some part of that guarantee has to be spent. All the best Posted by Sherlock
Well, yes, that's why Guarantees are offered - to make a bigger Prize Pool, to tempt players in. It's not disingenuous in the least - it's how Poker Prize Pool Guarantees work, Live & Online, the world over.
So if a Guarantee is offered, & it fails to cover - giving "Overlay" - then they'll persevere for a while, but eventually, having seen that the the numbers are not adding up, they will reduce the Guarantee. Every Online Room on the planet does the same. Except the ones who go insolvent by giving away free money for ever.
There is a Pool of money to cover Guarantees, & there are always some Tourneys that don't cover the Guarantee, every week. The Guarantees stay in place for while, but if they repeatedly fail to attract the Players, then they get reduced, or the Tourney scrapped. The Money is then used to offer Guarantees on other Tourneys.
That's what Guarantees are for.
This week, they took a monsta gamble & upped the Guarantees in all 7 of the Main Events by 25%. So far, the gamble has paid off, they all "covered". But if tonight's £12,500 Guaranteed Main fails to cover by, say, £3,000 (& it might!), the money will be paid out, obviously, but they will reduce the Guarantee next week. What would be the point in giving away that £3,000 every week? The Players might like it, but it's not a sustainable model.
So if the 7.30 Deepie repeatedly, after 4 months, fails to hit it's Guarantees, theres another guarantee - they will reduce the Guarantee. Guaranteed!
I don't mean this in a rude, or cheeky way, but why would they do otherwise? Am I missing your point somewhere?
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : Hi TiKay, Are Sky offering the guarantee in the hope that enough players sign up so they don't have to pay some of it out? If enough players don't turn up on a regular basis the tournament will be removed? In other words the guarantee is only there to tempt players in so the guarantee isn't used. This seems a little disingenuous. If they set up a guaranteed tournament, they shouldn't moan if some part of that guarantee has to be spent. All the best Posted by Sherlock
They would not moan - they'd just reduce it!
It means they misjudged the demand, so they would correct their assumptions & offer a more realistic Guarantee. One that....
Surely as long as it hits 15 runners or more MOST nights then the tournie is safe, as the combined entry fees of when it gets 18-22 runners will pay for the odd night when it gets 13-14???
Poker players love overlay so its not something that happens often
I like Torry's idea on a satellite for this. I'd love to have a go at it but my BR dictates that I really shouldn't. However, a £5 sat is a different thing and it might tempt a few other in too particularly as the night's are longer now.
Surely as long as it hits 15 runners or more MOST nights then the tournie is safe, as the combined entry fees of when it gets 18-22 runners will pay for the odd night when it gets 13-14??? Poker players love overlay so its not something that happens often Posted by scotty77
I hope so, yes.
As it happens, since the Guarantee dropped to £300 from £400, & everyone, particularly Barry, started being noisy neighbours, the numbers have averaged nearly 20.
We just have to sustain that. Maybe if the numbers creep back up, we can get the Guarantee back up - it used to be £500, as I recall.
Am I missing your point somewhere? Posted by Tikay10
"I don't believe you are missing my point. The guarantee is a carrot on a string (i.e. an eternal carrot that never gets eaten) Carrot's on strings rarely work. If a tournament can't stand on its own feet a temporary guarantee will not make it stand. It will create a false situation that there is a bonus to be had - but the bonus is never to be had if enough people sign up. The guarantee is to encourage people to sign up & disappears when they do. If they don't turn up the tournament will disappear (i.e. the carrot got eaten too many times & will not be replaced) So the point is - why bother? If a tournament can stand on it's own it is guaranteed to survive. If a donkey wants to walk it will walk. It soon gets fed up chasing a carrot on a string. All the best Posted by Sherlock..."
Well that's a different perspective entirely. But it's certainly not disingenious to remove guarantees which dont do the job they are designed to do.
Personally, I would NEVER offer guarantees, because I think the free market sorts itself out, & folks will play it, or not, as they prefer. But these days, everyone offers them, so I guess they are here to stay. But a Guarantee has never, never ever, tempted me to play a Tourney I would not otherwise have done. But Im an oddbod. We can agree on that, eh?
Oh & All the Best to you, too. I'm a soft touch for anyone with good manners!
Well that's a different perspective entirely. But it's certainly not disingenious to remove guarantees which dont do the job they are designed to do. Personally, I would NEVER offer guarantees, because I think the free market sorts itself out, & folks will play it, or not, as they prefer. But these days, everyone offers them, so I guess they are here to stay. But a Guarantee has never, never ever, tempted me to play a Tourney I would not otherwise have done. But Im an oddbod. We can agree on that, eh? Oh & All the Best to you, too. I'm a soft touch for anyone with good manners! Posted by Tikay10
TiKay,
We have arrived at common ground - The disingenious comment was a bit strong - I withdraw it.
A £2.20 1/10 or a £4.40 1/5 would be a nice satellite for this tournament, and if there are SNGs as well as scheduled sats, you might get a few more runners that way. :-)
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : No TiKay, We sublet to somebody called Gerry Rafferty? All the best Posted by Sherlock
Wow, you are quite old then, if you remember that! Good grief. I am not sure, but I think that track was recorded down in Oxfordshire somewhere.
Just re-reading your Posts in this thread, & having a reflective muse (can't beat a muse), in fact, I think we were always of the same mind, & I understand exactly your point. For my sins, I own a lump of another Online Cardroom, (which is why I still have to work, sigh.....) so I sort of know the score.
I think it was just that word "disingenouos" that set me off on the wrong path.
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG? : Wow, you are quite old then, if you remember that! Good grief. I am not sure, but I think that track was recorded down in Oxfordshire somewhere. Just re-reading your Posts in this thread, & having a reflective muse (can't beat a muse), in fact, I think we were always of the same mind, & I understand exactly your point. For my sins, I own a lump of another Online Cardroom, (which is why I still have to work, sigh.....) so I sort of know the score. I think it was just that word "disingenouos" that set me off on the wrong path. Posted by Tikay10
Easily lead down the wrong path tikay, its his age you know
Comments
I also forgot about the £300 Guarantee when debating last night's numbers. I had a bad morning, eh?
But Sky Poker won't keep subsiding it, they just won't, it makes no sense so to do.
But you are also right - because if it dropped that low - 7 or 8 Runners - I think the Tourney would be dropped off the Schedule.
I have posted this twice before, cant a satelite be organised for this event even if it is the night before for the next day if time doesnt allow.
I cant afford this buy in every night and enjoyed the cheaper one the other night when you got busted with trip two's lol
In Response to Re: TIKAY WAS I RIGHT OR WRONG?:
Are Sky offering the guarantee in the hope that enough players sign up so they don't have to pay some of it out?
If enough players don't turn up on a regular basis the tournament will be removed?
In other words the guarantee is only there to tempt players in so the guarantee isn't used.
This seems a little disingenuous.
If they set up a guaranteed tournament, they shouldn't moan if some part of that guarantee has to be spent.
All the best
My exit with Trip Two's? (Which was in the less expensive, but faster-structured, 7pm tikay Sleepie, yes?).
It was a right comical exit, really, & I've not stopped chuckling about it since - & it was 2 days ago!
I was 3-Tabling, & sort of sleeping, I don't really get involved in hands early doors, except Premiuns, & obvious situations (squuezes, & priced-in Calls), I prefer to wait until things settle down, & early-paced sprinters have shot their Usain.
The Table clicked up, I was in the BB with K-2, nobody Raised, 6 players had limped in, I just pre-clicked Check & went to another Table. Blinds were 25-50 I think.
Th Table clicked up again, & I saw the Flop was 2-2-3. Happy days! I Passed my hands on my other Tables & settled down to work out how to get paid. Easy game this.
Checked all round.
The Turn came a total blank, so I stuck 200 in, to see if I could get on. It's 2-2-3-x, Rainbow.
It went Pass, Pass, Pass, until it got to the Button. Who made it.........
6,000!
What? I'm sat there trying to figure what he'd do that with! 6,000 into about 400!
Well, no matter, we don't get all our chips in at this stage in a deepie, unless we are bonkers, or calling with the absolutes, so I decided to Pass. But my Mouse Finger thought different, & Called.
He turned over 2-3!
I had done a quick "what can he have" think, & I thought 2-3 was a no-no. Wrong!
My own fault, should never have Called really.
So if a Guarantee is offered, & it fails to cover - giving "Overlay" - then they'll persevere for a while, but eventually, having seen that the the numbers are not adding up, they will reduce the Guarantee. Every Online Room on the planet does the same. Except the ones who go insolvent by giving away free money for ever.
There is a Pool of money to cover Guarantees, & there are always some Tourneys that don't cover the Guarantee, every week. The Guarantees stay in place for while, but if they repeatedly fail to attract the Players, then they get reduced, or the Tourney scrapped. The Money is then used to offer Guarantees on other Tourneys.
That's what Guarantees are for.
This week, they took a monsta gamble & upped the Guarantees in all 7 of the Main Events by 25%. So far, the gamble has paid off, they all "covered". But if tonight's £12,500 Guaranteed Main fails to cover by, say, £3,000 (& it might!), the money will be paid out, obviously, but they will reduce the Guarantee next week. What would be the point in giving away that £3,000 every week? The Players might like it, but it's not a sustainable model.
So if the 7.30 Deepie repeatedly, after 4 months, fails to hit it's Guarantees, theres another guarantee - they will reduce the Guarantee. Guaranteed!
I don't mean this in a rude, or cheeky way, but why would they do otherwise? Am I missing your point somewhere?
It means they misjudged the demand, so they would correct their assumptions & offer a more realistic Guarantee. One that....
a) Attracted more players, &....
b) Covered the Guarantee more times than not.
Offering Overlay is giving away money.
Posted by Tikay10
I don't believe you are missing my point.
The guarantee is a carrot on a string (i.e. an eternal carrot that never gets eaten)
Carrot's on strings rarely work.
If a tournament can't stand on its own feet a temporary guarantee will not make it stand.
It will create a false situation that there is a bonus to be had - but the bonus is never to be had if enough people sign up.
The guarantee is to encourage people to sign up & disappears when they do.
If they don't turn up the tournament will disappear (i.e. the carrot got eaten too many times & will not be replaced)
So the point is - why bother? If a tournament can stand on it's own it is guaranteed to survive.
If a donkey wants to walk it will walk. It soon gets fed up chasing a carrot on a string.
All the best
As it happens, since the Guarantee dropped to £300 from £400, & everyone, particularly Barry, started being noisy neighbours, the numbers have averaged nearly 20.
We just have to sustain that. Maybe if the numbers creep back up, we can get the Guarantee back up - it used to be £500, as I recall.
Posted by Sherlock..."
Well that's a different perspective entirely. But it's certainly not disingenious to remove guarantees which dont do the job they are designed to do.
Personally, I would NEVER offer guarantees, because I think the free market sorts itself out, & folks will play it, or not, as they prefer. But these days, everyone offers them, so I guess they are here to stay. But a Guarantee has never, never ever, tempted me to play a Tourney I would not otherwise have done. But Im an oddbod. We can agree on that, eh?
Oh & All the Best to you, too. I'm a soft touch for anyone with good manners!
Posted by Tikay10
TiKay,
We have arrived at common ground - The disingenious comment was a bit strong - I withdraw it.
I couldn't agree more with your comments above.
It's nice to be nice.
All the best
Thank you Sherlock - top man you.
You still work in Baker Street?
No TiKay,
We sublet to somebody called Gerry Rafferty?
All the best
Just re-reading your Posts in this thread, & having a reflective muse (can't beat a muse), in fact, I think we were always of the same mind, & I understand exactly your point. For my sins, I own a lump of another Online Cardroom, (which is why I still have to work, sigh.....) so I sort of know the score.
I think it was just that word "disingenouos" that set me off on the wrong path.