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going back to basics!
pod1
Member Posts: 4,377
ok, after completely embarrassing myself with my last post i think i need some help with my game esp the maths part. i dont know how i got to this stage without losing a lot of money.
im fairly happy with my mtt game ,live esp. but this cash thing is driving me nuts. i must have something going for me as i have worked up to nl50 twice now but fall down badly at this level.
i think the problem is i play by feel and bet sizing and it gets me so far and then i hit a brick wall. i read grantorino (and a few others ) going through some pretty heavy maths to work out if a call is +ev or not and tbf most of it goes right over my head.so i decided if im ever going to beat nl50 and above i need to go right back to basics and learn the maths.
q 1) how much of the maths do you do whilst playing ,some of it looks like it takes 30 secs +!!. the 77 hand i put up, i was certain i was not fav there and to work out i was would have taken longer than the time allowed.
q2) what % of your cash games is worked out on maths and how much is player dependent lag/tag etc.
perfect example is this hand(its not a boring aa hand or a bad beat post) its about the maths.
my thinking pre was ob to reraise (was this enough ,if not why not).
post flop : naively i thought if he had a 10 surely you wouldnt raise when acting first, so put him on the q. was it right to reraise here and if so was it the right amount.
when he jammed can i /should i get away from this or is the amount in the pot made this an instant stack off.
like i say, some pretty basic questions here but i think i have to go back to grass roots to grow any further. thanks for any help phil
| sweenald14 | Small blind | £0.10 | £0.10 | £24.94 | |
| blackbeltb | Big blind | £0.20 | £0.30 | £39.70 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| DN34689 | Fold | ||||
| lkm82 | Fold | ||||
| whirlybabe | Raise | £0.80 | £1.10 | £42.47 | |
| pod1 | Raise | £2.00 | £3.10 | £36.52 | |
| sweenald14 | Call | £1.90 | £5.00 | £23.04 | |
| blackbeltb | Fold | ||||
| whirlybabe | Call | £1.20 | £6.20 | £41.27 | |
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| sweenald14 | Check | ||||
| whirlybabe | Bet | £6.20 | £12.40 | £35.07 | |
| pod1 | Raise | £15.50 | £27.90 | £21.02 | |
| sweenald14 | Fold | ||||
| whirlybabe | All-in | £35.07 | £62.97 | £0.00 | |
| pod1 | All-in | £21.02 | £83.99 | £0.00 | |
| whirlybabe | Unmatched bet | £4.75 | £79.24 | £4.75 | |
| whirlybabe | Show |
| |||
| pod1 | Show |
| |||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| whirlybabe | Win | Three 10s | £77.44 | £82.19 | |
Comments
This sort of reminds me of a thread i put up about 18 months ago. At the time i was playing 100nl and had />50 buyin roll, I kept taking shots at £200nl and time after time i would fail. I put up a thread asking why cant i beat 200nl and one of the 200nl regs came on and gave me a honest answer, "your not good enough" It was a tad soul destroying but it was the truth and it saved me money.
One of the main reasons is 50nl is far harder than 30nl, why? you get a few pro players playing 50nl and many many semi pro players that you wont find playing lower stakes.
With regards to the maths of poker, do you have pokerstove? if not get it its free. Have a mess about with it for a hour you might be shocked at how much equity some hands have. Keep stoving hands and in the end it will stick in your head.
The hand above, villan played this bad as he makes you fold most of your range. Make a note "donk leads pot on flop in 3bet pot with nuts"
I would also like to say well done, it takes alot to admit when your doing wrong and is the only way you will improve. I too have gone back to basics, way back, £5 DYM way back. I think my game has become too laggy and best way to nit up is DYM. GL.
Q2 Poker math is useless unless you put the right numbers in. These are informed by your reads on the player
The hand:
3bet bigger pre, esp as a little deep
I prob flat flop, but I would find it hard to ever fold this on most turns in a 3bet pot without reads
But yeah doing long drawn out EV calcs is not a critical part of being good at poker. At any lower levels learning some basic poker math, which shouldnt be too difficult, will do fine
Training site, free vids on card runners and VT poker (kid poker i thiunk can be funny).
When looking at vids dont watch 1000nl coz its too complex and you will just level yourself, best to watch 50nl 4 table vids imo.
The ranges Im giving here are examples, Im not saying its anyway likely to be villains range
lets say his range pre is AT+,KJ+, 22-QQ, we know he 4bets AK,KK+
when he bets flop we can think, he only does this with KJ, AQ,KQ, AT. Thats 16+6+12+4 combos.
We crush 18 of them are a 2/1 favourite v KJ (16) and are crushed by 4, which would make it clearly +EV to continue.
If however we feel hes unlikely to do this with KQ. AQ this reduces our equity. We might think he does this 1/4 of the time with these we might call that 5 combos. This would still be ok, but obv a less favourable situation. This is the kind of way you need to think. You wont get an exact figure, but you should be able to get a feel for where your equity is
As others have said use pokerstove to check later, some results will surprise you, learn from these
Much more bluffing in HU so getiing villans range narrowed down is very important, it can also give us some good basics about 3/4 bet range. Although these will be wider HU than 6 max it still gets the brain workin in the right direction.
Also in 6 max we dont/cant play just premium hands
The point of playing HU is to play peeps who are worse. If you decide to play some low stakes HU a few things to think about.......
Peopple pulling short, these can make you a slow an steady profit, beware some will sit with 30bb and dble and run on you.
Dont play <10/20p, rake at 5p/10p is 7.5% at 10/20p its 5%. You will deffo find it hard to show profit paying 7.5% rake.
http://www.thepokerbank.com/articles/questions/importance-mathematics/
The site explain things in a very straight forward way, easy to learn - and you don't have to be a rocket scientist
A 20 buyin roll is ok for smaller levels but when you are playin beter players and playing higher variance you need the roll.
If your happy to 2 table 50nl i would say 30 buyin is ok but if you wanna 6+ table you need a big roll