AK @ NL4 - Right to shove here?

EvilPingu

Hand History #448254835 (22:55 10/12/2011)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
PUTTERMAN	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£0.72
TINTIN	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.80
	Your hole cards	A K
cornwall01	Fold
scotOUTLAW	Raise		£0.40	£0.46	£5.89
EvilPingu	All-in		£3.89	£4.35	£0.00
PUTTERMAN	All-in		£0.72	£5.07	£0.00
TINTIN	Fold
scotOUTLAW	Call		£3.49	£8.56	£2.40
PUTTERMAN	Show	8 8
scotOUTLAW	Show	9 9
EvilPingu	Show	A K
Flop
		K Q 2
Turn
		6
River
		9
scotOUTLAW	Win	Three 9s	£7.91		£10.31

DrSharp

I actually dont mond this at nl4. As long as you accept the fact that you are probably racing when called then it isnt that bad but i have done 20% of my roll previously with AK in these kind of spots so its a case of embracing the variance.

NL4 - its a profitable play so i think its ok. Not sure if it is good at a higher level, even NL8 or NL10.

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: AK @ NL4 - Right to shove here?:

I actually dont mond this at nl4. As long as you accept the fact that you are probably racing when called then it isnt that bad but i have done 20% of my roll previously with AK in these kind of spots so its a case of embracing the variance. NL4 - its a profitable play so i think its ok. Not sure if it is good at a higher level, even NL8 or NL10.
Posted by DrSharp

My time bar had almost expired by the time I had convinced myself to call, as I was trying to work out why he raised 10x, my first thought was actually to fold but the amount of times I've seen people doing that sort of thing with a rag ace, or even jamming with them, I thought I had to re-raise all in. At any other level I think I'd fold there tbh.

grantorino

Much prefer 3betting small and getting it in if raised

Dudeskin8

I'd make it £1.20 and snap shove.

Open shoving prevents them making a mistake, however as he's called with 99 here I'd say with A10+/KJ+ he makes same call so against their range it's probably a good shove.

rancid

3 bet, shove says a lot about your game )

DOHHHHHHH

I'd shove too, min raising isn't gonna induce anything but calls behind from worse hands, and we miss the flop loads.

Shoving will get calls from alot worse though, that's just the way nl4 is.

wp imo.

rancid

In Response to Re: AK @ NL4 - Right to shove here?:

I'd make it £1.20 and snap shove. Open shoving prevents them making a mistake, however as he's called with 99 here I'd say with A10+/KJ+ he makes same call so against their range it's probably a good shove.
Posted by Dudeskin8

It's an easy call with 9's ) Sure he doesn't do this with any other prem hand

More often than not you fold out A10+/K10+ by shoving

I know it's NL4, but they can fold pre flop to a shove - but they can't fold on any flop they connect with

You may aswell 3 bet shove 10+ playing this way, which can't be bad if worse always calls )

Seems to cry out I don't wanna play AK IP in a 3 bet pot from the flop !!
Is this good or bad )

DrSharp

In Response to Re: AK @ NL4 - Right to shove here?:

I'd shove too, min raising isn't gonna induce anything but calls behind from worse hands, and we miss the flop loads. Shoving will get calls from alot worse though, that's just the way nl4 is. wp imo.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

This is pretty much the reason for shoving this hand in this spot at NL4. DOHHHHHHH just says it better than i do. lol.

If we raise again, not shoving, what do we do when we miss flop after being called? Shoving guarantees us seeing 5 cards and commits them to the hand. I just think at NL4 its the best play.

rancid

We and the oppo are equally as likley to miss or hit flop so it's 1/3 oppo hits
so 2/3 we win - even if oppo hits 1/3 we still have oppo dominated the majority so - we win
do the math - we win long term


But if oppo has a pr then we are the underdog, how is this good )


Does the shove get called often enough by worse to make it profitable, or do we get called by prs/better too often to make it not so profitbale long term

something to think about: If we 3 bet or shove and in both situations the oppo calls with AQ and the flop comes Q high with no improvement for us - which is best long term - 3 bet or shove -

then switch it so the flop comes Ace high, no improvements for oppo and oppo always stacks