level on levels hand

rob12345

Hand History #458206894 (05:36 03/01/2012)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceGEMOSmall blind £0.10£0.10£17.17rob12345Big blind £0.20£0.30£17.71 Your hole cards10A   Ashley99Fold    thiefofuFold    BrunoDanteFold    Reyes01Call £0.20£0.50£72.53GEMOCall £0.10£0.60£17.07rob12345Raise £0.60£1.20£17.11Reyes01Call £0.60£1.80£71.93GEMOFold    Flop  563   rob12345Bet £1.20£3.00£15.91Reyes01Call £1.20£4.20£70.73Turn  5   rob12345Check    Reyes01Bet £2.10£6.30£68.63rob12345Call £2.10£8.40£13.81River  7   rob12345Bet £4.40£12.80£9.41Reyes01Call £4.40£17.20£64.23rob12345Show10A   Reyes01Show22   Reyes01WinTwo Pairs, 5s and 2s£16.34 £80.57

rob12345

epic call its not bad beat post of something like that just one best calls any one made on me

Sky_Dave

That's quite a hand. Here's my two pences' worth...

Pre-flop seems standard enough to me. Prefer 2-2 opening with a raise rather than limp/calling, but as it turns out it works out well for him in terms of pot controlling.

Your preflop raise size might want to be a little bit more, imo. 60p into £1.20 gives each of the two players involved 2:1 should the pot be heads-up, and 3:1 if the other player comes in. I'd make it more like 75-90p.

Reyes calls and Gemo folds, which I find a little surprising but he is in the SB so will be playing the whole hand OOP. He could have had a hand that doesn't play particularly well post, like J8s or something. Anyways....

The flop play is where it gets interesting. The flop is about as good as both of you could have hoped for without you making a pair or him flopping a straight. I like you leading out as a lot of the time he's going to have two overs here and fold to a decent size bet. He could also pass some small pairs on many flops, although 22 and 44 have straight draws. Obviously 66/55/33 aren't going anywhere

I would say his call on the flop is somewhat standard. He might not love his hand but he’s looking to see what you do on the turn. That or hit a 2 or 4.

I do feel you misplayed the turn though. Why? Because if he WAS waiting to see what you’d do on the turn you have given him the answer on a silver platter. What hand are you rep-ing that raises preflop, bets the flop and then checks that turn? You're not worried about a five yourself, are you? A-5? Well then he's just nailed it. It is NOT the sort of card that would bother than type of hand you are trying to represent to him. Remember your hand looks a lot stronger than A-T to him at this point IF you bet. I'd bet about £4 into the £6.20 there.

If you bet the turn and he shoves here, he’s basically had to make a harder decision for more money. There's still a card to come, and his equity with a hand like 2-2 against ANY range (big pairs, two paint cards or two paint cards suited) is pretty icky.  He might be drawing incredibly thin against the likes of 7-6s and 7-5s too. In this instance he is ahead but he’s got to fade any A, T, 6, 3 or club. (Although surprisingly that still makes him a 3:1 favourite!)

Checking lets him get more information for free, which he gratefully receives and then checks behind. I like his turn check by the way. He can't rep the big hand as easily here because of his limp-call preflop.

Your check on the turn effectively says "I like my hand pre, and I kinda like it on the flop. I am not so sure on the turn now so I am going to step away a bit." I’ve seen a lot of villains here say “Oh, he must have A-K/A-Q here and make a terrible call on the river because of a deceptive check, but generally speaking a lot of players will take that check at face value. It just looks a little bit like you’ve given up on it. Or you’ve turned a monster like a boat.

The river play doesn’t need as much comment because what we’ve said on the turn. Although outwardly the 7d looks like a dangerous card (“I can bet now and represent a straight” kinda thing), there are two problems here:

* What hands with a 4 in them would you play the way you have here (raised pre, bet flop, checked turn)?

* Would a 4 bet the river OOP on a paired board? Some players might prefer to check then call a bet in case of a full house, and also allow them to catch bluffs such as a flush draw that didn’t get there.

For that reason the only way the 7 really helps was if he was holding a hand like 7-6, 8-7 or a nasty gut shot with overs. Even then he’d have to tread carefully about betting it.

It’s a pretty instructive hand. The call is a good one but I think you’ve kind of let him make it by checking that turn.

Hope you don’t mind the feedback – feel free to fire back any questions or counter-arguments if you like  

Good luck at the tables,

Dave

 

 

Sky_Dave

P.S Could you rename the title of the thread? Just might help get some chat going about it if people realise there's something to talk about

KKrippler

Nomination for best analysis on a hand in the poker clinic imo

Great stuff by dave, was an interesting read.

rancid

double barrel at least, if your checking turn then check river

checking turn then betting river = just getting called by the hand that called on the flop - nothing has changed


should c/f turn, what is your plan on river - if your plan is a bluff then bet big
Think overall you made it 2 ez for oppo to call river


Gotta say oppo bet on turn is crzy bad, seems like a bluff with the best hand :S

Sky_Dave

In Response to Re: thick this is sick:

double barrel at least, if your checking turn then check river checking turn then betting river = just getting called by the hand that called on the flop - nothing has changed should c/f turn, what is your plan on river - if your plan is a bluff then bet big Think overall you made it 2 ez for oppo to call river Gotta say oppo bet on turn is crzy bad, seems like a bluff with the best hand :S
Posted by rancid

I misread the hand and thought Villain checked behind on the turn. Not a huge fan of his bet on the turn either - he should just pot control and evaluate/get there on the river.

rob12345

yea deffo should bet turn looking at it now can see how the bet on the river looks like missed draw still very good call

rob12345

In Response to Re: thick this is sick:

That's quite a hand. Here's my two pences' worth... Pre-flop seems standard enough to me. Prefer 2-2 opening with a raise rather than limp/calling, but as it turns out it works out well for him in terms of pot controlling. Your preflop raise size might want to be a little bit more, imo. 60p into £1.20 gives each of the two players involved 2:1 should the pot be heads-up, and 3:1 if the other player comes in. I'd make it more like 75-90p. Reyes calls and Gemo folds, which I find a little surprising but he is in the SB so will be playing the whole hand OOP. He could have had a hand that doesn't play particularly well post, like J8s or something. Anyways.... The flop play is where it gets interesting. The flop is about as good as both of you could have hoped for without you making a pair or him flopping a straight. I like you leading out as a lot of the time he's going to have two overs here and fold to a decent size bet. He could also pass some small pairs on many flops, although 22 and 44 have straight draws. Obviously 66/55/33 aren't going anywhere I would say his call on the flop is somewhat standard. He might not love his hand but he’s looking to see what you do on the turn. That or hit a 2 or 4. I do feel you misplayed the turn though. Why? Because if he WAS waiting to see what you’d do on the turn you have given him the answer on a silver platter. What hand are you rep-ing that raises preflop, bets the flop and then checks that turn? You're not worried about a five yourself, are you? A-5? Well then he's just nailed it. It is NOT the sort of card that would bother than type of hand you are trying to represent to him. Remember your hand looks a lot stronger than A-T to him at this point IF you bet. I'd bet about £4 into the £6.20 there. If you bet the turn and he shoves here, he’s basically had to make a harder decision for more money. There's still a card to come, and his equity with a hand like 2-2 against ANY range (big pairs, two paint cards or two paint cards suited) is pretty icky.  He might be drawing incredibly thin against the likes of 7-6s and 7-5s too. In this instance he is ahead but he’s got to fade any A, T, 6, 3 or club. (Although surprisingly that still makes him a 3:1 favourite!) Checking lets him get more information for free, which he gratefully receives and then checks behind. I like his turn check by the way. He can't rep the big hand as easily here because of his limp-call preflop. Your check on the turn effectively says "I like my hand pre, and I kinda like it on the flop. I am not so sure on the turn now so I am going to step away a bit." I’ve seen a lot of villains here say “Oh, he must have A-K/A-Q here and make a terrible call on the river because of a deceptive check, but generally speaking a lot of players will take that check at face value. It just looks a little bit like you’ve given up on it. Or you’ve turned a monster like a boat. The river play doesn’t need as much comment because what we’ve said on the turn. Although outwardly the 7d looks like a dangerous card (“I can bet now and represent a straight” kinda thing), there are two problems here: * What hands with a 4 in them would you play the way you have here (raised pre, bet flop, checked turn)? * Would a 4 bet the river OOP on a paired board? Some players might prefer to check then call a bet in case of a full house, and also allow them to catch bluffs such as a flush draw that didn’t get there. For that reason the only way the 7 really helps was if he was holding a hand like 7-6, 8-7 or a nasty gut shot with overs. Even then he’d have to tread carefully about betting it. It’s a pretty instructive hand. The call is a good one but I think you’ve kind of let him make it by checking that turn. Hope you don’t mind the feedback – feel free to fire back any questions or counter-arguments if you like   Good luck at the tables, Dave    
Posted by Sky_Dave

that was more than two pence worth like 10 pound worth thanx fatastic feed back