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Is this fold correct?

SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
edited January 2012 in The Poker Clinic
I,m 99% sure the laydown was correct in this spot but would like your observations.

 With me holding the Ks the only hands I could put my opponent on was J10, AJ or AQs. I'd like to think he'd flat call if holding J10 so can only assume the pot size raise means I'm beat.

Only thing troubling me is he knows I can only call if holding the Ace so its a great spot for a bluff. Ahh well, if that was the case then well played mate.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
SJspanky1 Small blind   £0.20 £0.20 £159.49
richtea Big blind   £0.40 £0.60 £96.47
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • 7
     
SJspanky1 Call   £0.20 £0.80 £159.29
richtea Raise   £1.20 £2.00 £95.27
SJspanky1 Call   £1.20 £3.20 £158.09
Flop
   
  • 4
  • 5
  • 8
     
richtea Bet   £2.00 £5.20 £93.27
SJspanky1 Raise   £4.40 £9.60 £153.69
richtea Call   £2.40 £12.00 £90.87
Turn
   
  • K
     
richtea Bet   £6.80 £18.80 £84.07
SJspanky1 Call   £6.80 £25.60 £146.89
River
   
  • Q
     
richtea Check        
SJspanky1 Bet   £12.80 £38.40 £134.09
richtea Raise   £38.80 £77.20 £45.27
SJspanky1 Fold        
richtea Muck        
richtea Win   £50.20   £95.47
richtea Return   £26.00 £1.00 £121.47
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Comments

  • nug82nug82 Member Posts: 82
    edited January 2012
    As you stated above you could of put in on Aj or Aq.

    There for what is stopping him having them suited? I think it was a great fold. shows good disabline. IMO 
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  • crasshcrassh Member Posts: 38
    edited January 2012
    Bad fold.  His pre-flop action looks like a big pair, probably not aces but kings or queens, with his turn bet, he could have AK.  Even without the preflop action, too often he's got trips, two pair a straight or an under flush and thinks he's betting for value when you have him beat.  Folding the second nuts (there is a straight flush possibility as well but I think we can pretty much discount it) isn't, in my opinion, a long term winning strategy.
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  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    Bad fold.  His pre-flop action looks like a big pair, probably not aces but kings or queens, with his turn bet, he could have AK.  Even without the preflop action, too often he's got trips, two pair a straight or an under flush and thinks he's betting for value when you have him beat.  Folding the second nuts (there is a straight flush possibility as well but I think we can pretty much discount it) isn't, in my opinion, a long term winning strategy.
    Posted by crassh
    Preflop action is just a standard raise to 1.20 at this level so I can't agree that signifies a big pair. This player will always continue bet postflop and turn with made hands and draws so I'm not assuming its AK with the turn bet, could just as easily be the  flush draw. At this stage I could probably raise as I hold top pair and both gutshot straight and flush draws. I've already stated my reasons for not calling reraise on river but you may be right and it is -EV to fold here. As we are both deepstacked and he doesn't push all-in maybe I was in front.

    Thanks for your comments.
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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited January 2012

    tight fold but dependent on reads..!?

    what history do u have because u need to build a range for a raise after ur button limp.. generally OOP this should be quite a tight range but SC will show up too..

    this is such a weird line to take B/C the flop then donkin the K turn seems like a made hand that smack the flop in the face but doesnt want the turn to get checked trhrough and losin a street of value..

    then to c/raise the river gets wieder and would polarise his hand to nuts or air as most other made hands (sets or straight) may jus call down but worse flushes would raise here...

    a worse hand like a smaller flush can still play like this as ur HU its hard for him to put both on a flush and WOULD still raise a smaller flush for value on the river.. and given ur limp pre he prob takes high suited cards out of ur range..

    jus sna call and take a note..! like to know the outcome of this tho.!

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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited January 2012
    lol at this fold, he just owned you.

    you beat so much here that folding is just bad.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited January 2012
    I reckon RT is using his image to spin a 2 card J high flush into a bluff ;)

    ambitious/suicidal kung-fu nit river moves ftw. 
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  • RknowlezRknowlez Member Posts: 49
    edited January 2012
    What are you hoping for when you raise the flop? You hit two perfect cards and have the second realistic nuts in theory.
    Way you have played the hand i believe you have to call, losing to only one hand and i doubt he has a hand like AJ spades, doubt he calls turn bet with hand like that drawing to a flush only based on my experience with that player. 
    However from playing with this player he often has it and wouldn't be surprised if he did turn up with nuts but interested to see what he did have hmmmmmm??


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  • nug82nug82 Member Posts: 82
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    As you stated above you could of put in on Aj or Aq. There for what is stopping him having them suited? I think it was a great fold. shows good disabline. IMO 
    Posted by nug82
    Discipline is what I meant to right.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2012

    I am a crocodile

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  • JackoG9JackoG9 Member Posts: 69
    edited January 2012

    Folding the second nuts here must be a losing play. I can't see how the river action allows you to put him on such a narrow range. Strong reads?? And if AXs is a possibility then why bet out after he checks.
    Plus, him check raising river is such a strange line. If he does have the nut flush surely he would bet for value given the previous action.

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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    I am a crocodile
    Posted by rancid

    +1


    and +1 to calling the river.
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  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct? : +1 and +1 to calling the river.
    Posted by beaneh

    I play Richtea quite often at the midstakes cash and normally when he reraises he has it. That said when he has it, he normally makes a far larger bet. Its beginning to dawn on me that it was a bad decision....... screaming J 10s at me now.

    Still having just donked off 50 hard earned pounds at PLO I was determined to book a winning session and managed it..onwards and upwards!!

    Perhaps Richtea can post here and put me out of my misery.

    And NColley and Idonkcallyou , feel free to sit at my table and relieve me of my cash whenever you like, always glad of the company.

    Thanks for all the comments chaps.
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited January 2012
    bahaha namedropping me, guess your mad because you was hoping someonewas going to say 'OMG BEST FOLD EVER YOU ARE SO GOOD'
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  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    bahaha namedropping me, guess your mad because you was hoping someonewas going to say 'OMG BEST FOLD EVER YOU ARE SO GOOD'
    Posted by NColley
    Sniff, snuffle...you're right, all I wanted was to be told I'm better than Ivey and instead you're all labelling me a donk...it's enough to drive a man back to Pokerstars....

    Seriously,tho...sry if my namedrop upset you..I'm always glad of the feedback, good, bad or indifferent. Cheers.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2012

    Surely when you bet river this small, it’s only to induce bluff – can’t see how you ever b/f  - especially when the raise is so small - even if oppo raises small with nutz then it’s still a sigh call

     

    Seems like a needless argument

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  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    i think if your playing fearless and losing this pot has no affect to you and u are rolled like 40 buy ins i think you would snap this of summit tells me your playing scared poker is this all your money on this table because this is a call all day long i dnt think any reg on sky poker high stakes is folding this ever 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU

    Fraid I can't blame it on lack of funds, I did drop 400 quid the day before though so would be better labelling it paranoid not scared poker. I don't think the big boys would consider 40NL highstakes though.

    Was betting for value, not expecting to get repopped there. The bet may have looked so weak that it cried out for a reraise. Sigh, another leak...bet more with strong hands.

    Agreed though, fold looks worse the more I think about it. Thinking too much about the metagame instead of pure poker.
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited January 2012
    I think a fold here is bad, if you're worried about him maybe having the nut flush then you still have to call here because most of the time you're up against a set, weaker flush, or something like that.
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  • liamboi11liamboi11 Member Posts: 2,141
    edited January 2012
    i know what you mean with richtea everytime a call he has it 2 lol but i`m not foldin in this spot only the nut flush beats us here and someone said earlier his lead on the turn looks like he has a made hand and i think the same 2 pair,set or even the straight 76.But being honest he is a tough opponent
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited January 2012
    Could he infact have KQ here and be turning his hand into a bluff? You limp call doesn't look strong pre flop so maybe he has called you on the flop and then hit a king on the turn so decided to donk out on the turn. Then on the river decided to represent the nut flush but with some showdown value beating all other two pair hands that might hero call.
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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this fold correct?:
    Could he infact have KQ here and be turning his hand into a bluff? You limp call doesn't look strong pre flop so maybe he has called you on the flop and then hit a king on the turn so decided to donk out on the turn. Then on the river decided to represent the nut flush but with some showdown value beating all other two pair hands that might hero call.
    Posted by jugglegeek
    no way..! its hard without knowing history between the 2 players and im not sure sure how long u have been playin HU for butimo raising KQ is far to thin and what can he expect to get called from.! ??

    tbh if u had been playin a while and he's half decent, he can play ATC with a balanced range and seriously iron u wen he finds out u can fold in this spot.!
    how did this match end up?

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