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What Do I Do? You Decide.lol

shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
edited January 2012 in Poker Chat
I have been through a slump on Sky Poker recently and am deciding whether to deposit, to move sites or whether I should give up all together? I only play MTT's so know that it can be extended periods between wins, and that you shouldn't hope to cash everytime. I have cashed a total of £750ish this month so far, yet have no bankroll left after only playing Main events. I know I'm not good enough yet to be making massive money from poker, nor am I nieve enough to believe in conspiracy theories, yet my results have become a joke and my game isn't in bad shape. I am struggling to justify depositing again and paying for tonights Main(£33). So I'll throw it out there and see what you guys think. Should I Deposit and just wait for the swing in variance, Should I look for a new site to play on, or Should I give up on poker and accept that I'm not good enough? Anyone with an opinion then let me know. Thanks. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 173,825
    edited January 2012

    Hi Shaun.

    MTT's are, by definition, high variance.

    Why not try some DYM's, or even better, Cash? - the variance in these is much less.
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    Hi Shaun. MTT's are, by definition, high variance. Why not try some DYM's, or even better, Cash? - the variance in these is much less.
    Posted by Tikay10
    I totally understand that MTT's are 'high variance', but I can't reconcile the difference in my results. I play every main event every night apart from Sunday, and I used to regularly cash(over an extended sample size) and have made many final tables. I have won a main event on Sky and several on other sites too, so unless they were just mightily lucky, I must have a modicum of skill. In the last two months my results have been laughable except for a 4 day period where I ran well and then haven't had a single cash since. I could try DYM's or Cash but I don't enjoy them. I love the buzz of playing a tournament but can't afford to just keep pumping money into my poker account for no return. I don't like moaning, whether from myself or others but feel at my wits end with it at the moment and just wanted an outsiders observations. Thanks once again Tikay. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
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  • belsibubbelsibub Member Posts: 2,527
    edited January 2012
    I take it you have tried sat's and semi's to reduce costs and maximise cashes?
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  • labrat64labrat64 Member Posts: 987
    edited January 2012
    Shaun. if you are intent on only playing MTT, surely the way to go would be to play lower buy in and the satellites for the main events!
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  • AcidMan27AcidMan27 Member Posts: 3,752
    edited January 2012
    Yeah sounds like you're playing out of your bankroll at the minute.

    Try the sats to reduce your costs or just move down to some smaller buyin tournaments.

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  • DaveOwlXDaveOwlX Member Posts: 140
    edited January 2012
    Seems like the bankroll you have put in to your account wasn't enough to cope with the high variance swings of MTT as Tikay has touched on. Like they say even the best players are lucky to get over 25% of cashes regularly. I guess if you are trying to justify putting money in then you probably shouldn't be using it :)

    I would play cash but if you don't like it then smaller MTT buy ins plus the main event satellites rather than buying straight in if that's what you're doing.

    Every time you write that you're a Villa fan in Birmingham Shaun I think the poker gods give you a bad beat :)
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012

    Thanks Belsibub. I have tried sats to reduce costs. Only problem with them is that the sats are a big percentage of the seat price. For example, if I tried to sat into tonights, a direct sat is £7.20. That is 20% of a seat, so if you don't qualify then you are just increasing the price of the seat. So if you try once and fail, then buy in direct, a min cash barely shows a profit. If you play the mini sats that get you into a semi/direct sat then you have to win two tourneys to get into the Main. Thanks for another opinion though. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham

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  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited January 2012
    In Response to What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    I have been through a slump on Sky Poker recently and am deciding whether to deposit, to move sites or whether I should give up all together? I only play MTT's so know that it can be extended periods between wins, and that you shouldn't hope to cash everytime. I have cashed a total of £750ish this month so far, yet have no bankroll left after only playing Main events. I know I'm not good enough yet to be making massive money from poker, nor am I nieve enough to believe in conspiracy theories, yet my results have become a joke and my game isn't in bad shape. I am struggling to justify depositing again and paying for tonights Main(£33). So I'll throw it out there and see what you guys think. Should I Deposit and just wait for the swing in variance, Should I look for a new site to play on, or Should I give up on poker and accept that I'm not good enough? Anyone with an opinion then let me know. Thanks. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
    Posted by shaun84
    Hi Shaun.
    Looking at your stats you clearly like to play a lot of Bounty Hunters. Whilst MTT's have a much bigger variance than cash, I would say the variance in Bounty Hunter Tournies is even greater than NLH MTT's.

    Your losses in ME's can be put down to bad BRM (Bank Roll Management) I like to play one or two ME's per week, but try to build up my winnings in smaller NLH events such as deepstacks and treat myself to an ME if I manage to bink a couple of decent cashes.

    I am a recreational player and accept that on average I lose £0.65p per game when I play MTT's, but also know this could be a lot worse if I played above my bank roll.

    I would suggest coming down a few levels and playing NLH between £3 - £5.00 and treat yourself to an ME if you bink a couple of wins a week. You will probably find you enjoy it a lot more as well, as there's not so much pressure to cash in every game.

    Best of luck in whatever you decide.
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    Seems like the bankroll you have put in to your account wasn't enough to cope with the high variance swings of MTT as Tikay has touched on. Like they say even the best players are lucky to get over 25% of cashes regularly. I guess if you are trying to justify putting money in then you probably shouldn't be using it :) I would play cash but if you don't like it then smaller MTT buy ins plus the main event satellites rather than buying straight in if that's what you're doing. Every time you write that you're a Villa fan in Birmingham Shaun I think the poker gods give you a bad beat :)
    Posted by DaveOwlX
    Thanks for your reply DaveOwlX. I have more than enough money to play every night. What I meant when I said I was trying to 'Justify' depositing, was the fact that if you where 'throwing money away' you would stop, regardless of whether you could afford it or not. I was just trying to find out an honest opinion of whether people thought I was throwing good money after bad or whether it was completely down to variance and I just need to deposit and continue playing for a few more weeks. Thanks. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    In Response to What Do I Do? You Decide.lol : Hi Shaun. Looking at your stats you clearly like to play a lot of Bounty Hunters. Whilst MTT's have a much bigger variance than cash, I would say the variance in Bounty Hunter Tournies is even greater than NLH MTT's. Your losses in ME's can be put down to bad BRM (Bank Roll Management) I like to play one or two ME's per week, but try to build up my winnings in smaller NLH events such as deepstacks and treat myself to an ME if I manage to bink a couple of decent cashes. I am a recreational player and accept that on average I lose £0.65p per game when I play MTT's, but also know this could be a lot worse if I played above my bank roll. I would suggest coming down a few levels and playing NLH between £3 - £5.00 and treat yourself to an ME if you bink a couple of wins a week. You will probably find you enjoy it a lot more as well, as there's not so much pressure to cash in every game. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
    Posted by POKERTREV
    I used to win/final table at least 1 Bounty Hunter each week(£11 buy-in £500 GTD) and then have all my Main Event cashes on top. I don't think I'd play if I needed to stick to small buy in games. It doesn't give the same buzz playing for small amounts. I appreciate the reply from someone as highly esteemed as yourself PokerTrev and have considered cutting down my Bounty Hunter participation. In all honesty I hadn't considered the fact that they are higher variance than NLHE, even though it is obvious once someone says it.lol. I guess I'll have to just hope the swing comes back in my direction soon. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited January 2012
    I agree with all of the above, rather then playing every Main, drop down the levels and play £5.50 tourneys until you have enough 50-100 buys in for higher tourneys or satelite in. 

    I direct buy in the odd MTT out of my bankroll but if your doing every night, you will need to run good to to keep playing. 

    Tourneys are high variance, so if your prepared to play them expect long periods of nothing. Im sure Scotty77 wont mind me saying but he is having a barren run with them so even the best of us cant withstand the variance in them. 

    Regards
    John
    Charlton fan from Sevenoaks :) 
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    In Response to What Do I Do? You Decide.lol : Hi Shaun. Looking at your stats you clearly like to play a lot of Bounty Hunters. Whilst MTT's have a much bigger variance than cash, I would say the variance in Bounty Hunter Tournies is even greater than NLH MTT's. Your losses in ME's can be put down to bad BRM (Bank Roll Management) I like to play one or two ME's per week, but try to build up my winnings in smaller NLH events such as deepstacks and treat myself to an ME if I manage to bink a couple of decent cashes. I am a recreational player and accept that on average I lose £0.65p per game when I play MTT's, but also know this could be a lot worse if I played above my bank roll. I would suggest coming down a few levels and playing NLH between £3 - £5.00 and treat yourself to an ME if you bink a couple of wins a week. You will probably find you enjoy it a lot more as well, as there's not so much pressure to cash in every game. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
    Posted by POKERTREV
    When you say 'Looking at your stats', is that on SharkScope or is that on Sky? If so, is there a way I can look?lol. Thanks again. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited January 2012
    Sounds like a fairly typical downswing to me, all MTTers are guaranteed to get one sooner or later. A couple of months or more without a decent result is common even if you play daily. I recommended dropping stakes and playing in tournies with smaller fields until you start winning again. When your confidence returns and your bankroll is heading the right way you can move back to your usual games. Maybe try STTs for a while.

    A high profile Team51 member had a similar downswing recently. He said it felt like he'd forgotten how to play poker, suddenly he could barely win a hand, let alone a tournament. He decided to go right back to square one and went back to playing the £1.15 DYMs he last played when he first joined Sky. Within a few days his confidence returned, so did the results. He's now built his way back up to the biggest games. We could all learn a lesson from his example. Good luck.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 173,825
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol : I totally understand that MTT's are 'high variance', but I can't reconcile the difference in my results. I play every main event every night apart from Sunday, and I used to regularly cash(over an extended sample size) and have made many final tables. I have won a main event on Sky and several on other sites too, so unless they were just mightily lucky, I must have a modicum of skill. In the last two months my results have been laughable except for a 4 day period where I ran well and then haven't had a single cash since. I could try DYM's or Cash but I don't enjoy them. I love the buzz of playing a tournament but can't afford to just keep pumping money into my poker account for no return. I don't like moaning, whether from myself or others but feel at my wits end with it at the moment and just wanted an outsiders observations. Thanks once again Tikay. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
    Posted by shaun84

    Shaun, I MUST say this, even though it is part of my role to promote, amongst other things, Tourneys on Sky Poker.

    MTT's are VERY high variance. Even the greatest players sometimes go through a lean spell. In the Live arena, I know of any number of quality players who have suffered a "drought". (Mine is going in for 9 years now....).

    You need to give this some thought - Cash, & DYMs, are MUCH lower variance. Or why not try the new "Timed Tourneys"? - again, these have much lower variance, as a greater % of the field gets paid.

    The last thing anyone wants if for you to...

    1) Go busto

    2) Get "down" on yourself, & not enjoy your poker.

    As for tonight, for a whole £5, you can play the Forum DTD - THREE Tourneys, all deep stacks, for a fiver!

    Give the Main Events a rest for a week or two, play a bit smaller, & fingers crossed, it will turn for you soon. After all, even Villa won on Saturday.

    Good Luck.
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  • bigflop1bigflop1 Member Posts: 1,034
    edited January 2012
    i understand what you are saying but i do not understand the "new site option" if you can afford a deposit on another site, then why not deposit here?? the variance on other sites is exactly the same as here so may as well stay here imo!!
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    I agree with all of the above, rather then playing every Main, drop down the levels and play £5.50 tourneys until you have enough 50-100 buys in for higher tourneys or satelite in.  I direct buy in the odd MTT out of my bankroll but if your doing every night, you will need to run good to to keep playing.  Tourneys are high variance, so if your prepared to play them expect long periods of nothing. Im sure Scotty77 wont mind me saying but he is having a barren run with them so even the best of us cant withstand the variance in them.  Regards John Charlton fan from Sevenoaks :) 
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    Nice :)  You've copied my style. It feels good doesn't it.lol. Once you start you can't stop though.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 173,825
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    [QUOTE]i understand what you are saying but i do not understand the "new site option" if you can afford a deposit on another site, then why not deposit here?? the variance on other sites is exactly the same as here so may as well stay here imo!!
    Posted by bigflop1

    Exactly - to suggest otherwise suggests the bad run has "got into your head", as that's just not logical.
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    i understand what you are saying but i do not understand the "new site option" if you can afford a deposit on another site, then why not deposit here?? the variance on other sites is exactly the same as here so may as well stay here imo!!
    Posted by bigflop1
    In all honesty, I wasn't ever contemplating leaving Sky, just put that bit in to get a couple of replies.lol. Thought a few people would say 'Sling Your Hook', and others would spout their usual conspiracy about it being Skys fault. That would have filled the thread with responses and kept it on the first page of GPC which would, in turn, give me the best opportunity to get the responses I needed. Thanks for noticing though.lol. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
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  • shaun84shaun84 Member Posts: 685
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol:
    In Response to Re: What Do I Do? You Decide.lol : [QUOTE ]i understand what you are saying but i do not understand the "new site option" if you can afford a deposit on another site, then why not deposit here?? the variance on other sites is exactly the same as here so may as well stay here imo!! Posted by bigflop1
    Exactly - to suggest otherwise suggests the bad run has "got into your head", as that's just not logical.
    Posted by Tikay10

    See above. It was a blatant attempt to inflate the amount of responses I got.lol
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  • cleaverjimcleaverjim Member Posts: 1,070
    edited January 2012

    You to me see a quite accomplished player just having a bad run.If you just drop to a slightly lower level and play well i think then you will be more happy to deposit for higher games,Good luck
    Jim spurs fan from Chelmsford.:):)

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