100% check v this player. Not loving the 4bet pre either....but I dnt really know. He never has a flush draw. His range is full of sets & 2 pair hands. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
really. flatting 4 bet oop with them hands sucks tbh ) but we've all done it :O I think overall if we check or bet, we are facing the same decision But maybe thinking about it with back door equity we should check
Are we really sure oppo bets with worse/bluffs to go into c/c mode mmmmmm
i also said check back flop coz has doh just mentioned he could have set/2 pair hands so check back control pot and also in position see what opponent does on turn gain more info.
also I agree wilhelm obv did 4 bet for value just imo think the opponent could have easily smashed this flop wae aq,aj,qq,jj or missed wae hands like 10s or 9s so by betting flop better hands call or raise worse hands fold we dont just bet because we have top pair top kicker got to think what opponent has imo
i also said check back flop coz has doh just mentioned he could have set/2 pair hands so check back control pot and also in position see what opponent does on turn gain more info. also I agree wilhelm obv did 4 bet for value just imo think the opponent could have easily smashed this flop wae aq,aj,qq,jj or missed wae hands like 10s or 9s so by betting flop better hands call or raise worse hands fold we dont just bet because we have top pair top kicker got to think what opponent has imo Posted by liamboi11
Would love to know what oppo thinks heroes 4 betting range is to be flatting with them hands oop tbh
In Response to Re: Flop Decision : really. flatting 4 bet oop with them hands sucks tbh ) but we've all done it :O I think overall if we check or bet, we are facing the same decision But maybe thinking about it with back door equity we should check Are we really sure oppo bets with worse/bluffs to go into c/c mode mmmmmm Need reads on pre and post tbh - readless sux Posted by rancid
This exactly.
Also working on assumption that opponent has a real hand.
If we are looking to call a bet on turn that is going to be stack significant I far prefer continuing on flop. Maintain betting lead and prevent board from developing.
If stacks are deeper we can take a different line. But the with the pot being at this size with one committing bet, when we are willing to call a bet on turn, I much prefer opening on flop.
Villain is affectionately known as "a ladderer", which suggests he's extremely risk averse..... That's why I'm unsure about the 4b pre, and very weary of this board. His 3betting range will be very tight, & he may well flat your 4 bet with T-Q's & AK, maybe even Kings, just to see no ace on the flop. If he 3bets TT+ & AQ+, hes smashed this flop. It's a no brainer to check this back, if we bet we're looking for a loose call from KK & an optimistic TT only. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
when you leave the name in and say you are readless every answer you get is going to based on whatever history the player has with the person answering the question.
I can't say I remember playing with this guy ever but 'readless' you 4 bet and you make TPTK, flop is a check but I'm not folding to a blank turn.
Villain is affectionately known as "a ladderer", which suggests he's extremely risk averse..... That's why I'm unsure about the 4b pre, and very weary of this board. His 3betting range will be very tight, & he may well flat your 4 bet with T-Q's & AK, maybe even Kings, just to see no ace on the flop. If he 3bets TT+ & AQ+, hes smashed this flop. It's a no brainer to check this back, if we bet we're looking for a loose call from KK & an optimistic TT only. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
mmmm reads FTW
If we are behind we will face a bet on turn so if we check or bet flop we will face the same decision iF we bet and they fold it's the same outcome as checking it down For me there one in the same
The only merits to checking are if oppo bets worse/bluffs, but hey we gotta be sure on this ) I guess the only problem I have with checking is leaving the door open to be bluffed off this hand very easily Showing strenght pre to check flop is either weak or strong so............ depends how capable oppo is
checking flop then checking turn would seem, blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
What hands are we 4 betting pre and then happy to check that flop with knowing we are ahead
Heros mistake was 4 betting pre, note 4 bet is not for value if villians calling range crushes you... (i.e he only flats AA/KK and folds everything else)
Edit - Removed pokerstove stuff, can't see the range being right.
Well what can I, if oppo flats 4 bet with this kinda range with that stack then pffffffft – not good, but why should it be no surprise if oppo shows 2 pr/set!
So oppo thinks hero 4 bets mid prs/bluffs enough to make the call oppo worthwhile – come on )
Gotta be ranging hero with QQ+AK surely
Only makes sense to flat 4 bet with AA/KK but that’s my thinking and no history
Well it's 10/20 n eff stacks are 100xbb after pre flop action...
So villain may well be set mining his TT/JJ/QQ....
Rancid its a micro tourny on sky, not a wsop bracelet event, our oppos wont be playing perfectly, there will be plenty of mistakes for us to exploit! :P
Instead of .....
"So oppo thinks hero 4 bets mid prs/bluffs enough to make the call oppo worthwhile – come on )"
Try.....
"So oppo is looking at his own hand rather than thinking about what we hold & has decided he has a hand he doesn't want to fold until he has seen a flop because he might hit big"
Readless, we dont have to work on a worst case scenario here and insta give up on the hand, especially when we have inflated it with the 4 bet pre.
We priced in all 3 bet squeezes pre + badly bet pps.
If I'm not folding turn when he leads (which I'm not saying I wont), I'm betting flop. Simple. Am not waiting for an additional reason to fold on turn, nor giving over all power and control in hand. We are looking for excuses to fold in this hand, period, through thread.
I doubt i 3bet pre IP here either as someone else said.
OP'ster stated hand as readless, so am keeping it readless, despite hearing peoples notes on player.
Oppo has not got the price to set mine here by hey I know what your saying – who cares about price – I call – I may get lucky- we all do it at various times because…. We human )
We should factor in the fact that oppo/hero are not playing optimally but doesn’t mean we should not highlight that fact )
Problem is if we think along the lines of oppo is bad, they could call with anything and we level ourselves too much
I kinda prefer, o you made a bad call/move and got lucky and got my stack – wp sir! I wish you luck in the future
All in all, I really have not got a problem with a check or a bet – just certain lines we should keep constant – think betting flop is my option has it’s feasible there are a ton of hands we 4 bet pre and continue on this flop while there are only 1 or 2 we check behind
But I am loving our reads + back door equity so a check can't be that bad
If villian is purely set mining with QQ - 1010 then he is just as likely to set mine with all other pockets too IMO, just as likely to hit a set with QQ as you are with 44.
Comments
really. flatting 4 bet oop with them hands sucks tbh ) but we've all done it :O
I think overall if we check or bet, we are facing the same decision
But maybe thinking about it with back door equity we should check
Are we really sure oppo bets with worse/bluffs to go into c/c mode mmmmmm
Need reads on pre and post tbh - readless sux
i also said check back flop coz has doh just mentioned he could have set/2 pair hands so check back control pot and also in position see what opponent does on turn gain more info.
also I agree wilhelm obv did 4 bet for value just imo think the opponent could have easily smashed this flop wae aq,aj,qq,jj or missed wae hands like 10s or 9s so by betting flop better hands call or raise worse hands fold
we dont just bet because we have top pair top kicker got to think what opponent has imo
Would love to know what oppo thinks heroes 4 betting range is to be flatting with them hands oop tbh
also i`m just sayin they hands could be possible imo.
Also working on assumption that opponent has a real hand.
If we are looking to call a bet on turn that is going to be stack significant I far prefer continuing on flop. Maintain betting lead and prevent board from developing.
If stacks are deeper we can take a different line. But the with the pot being at this size with one committing bet, when we are willing to call a bet on turn, I much prefer opening on flop.
I can't say I remember playing with this guy ever but 'readless' you 4 bet and you make TPTK, flop is a check but I'm not folding to a blank turn.
reads FTW
If we are behind we will face a bet on turn so if we check or bet flop we will face the same decision
iF we bet and they fold it's the same outcome as checking it down
For me there one in the same
The only merits to checking are if oppo bets worse/bluffs, but hey we gotta be sure on this )
I guess the only problem I have with checking is leaving the door open to be bluffed off this hand very easily
Showing strenght pre to check flop is either weak or strong so............ depends how capable oppo is
checking flop then checking turn would seem, blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
What hands are we 4 betting pre and then happy to check that flop with knowing we are ahead
Heros mistake was 4 betting pre, note 4 bet is not for value if villians calling range crushes you... (i.e he only flats AA/KK and folds everything else)
Edit - Removed pokerstove stuff, can't see the range being right.
Well what can I, if oppo flats 4 bet with this kinda range with that stack then pffffffft – not good, but why should it be no surprise if oppo shows 2 pr/set!
So oppo thinks hero 4 bets mid prs/bluffs enough to make the call oppo worthwhile – come on )
Gotta be ranging hero with QQ+AK surely
Only makes sense to flat 4 bet with AA/KK but that’s my thinking and no history
We priced in all 3 bet squeezes pre + badly bet pps.
If I'm not folding turn when he leads (which I'm not saying I wont), I'm betting flop. Simple. Am not waiting for an additional reason to fold on turn, nor giving over all power and control in hand. We are looking for excuses to fold in this hand, period, through thread.
I doubt i 3bet pre IP here either as someone else said.
OP'ster stated hand as readless, so am keeping it readless, despite hearing peoples notes on player.
Dohhhhhh
Oppo has not got the price to set mine here by hey I know what your saying – who cares about price – I call – I may get lucky- we all do it at various times because…. We human )
We should factor in the fact that oppo/hero are not playing optimally but doesn’t mean we should not highlight that fact )
Problem is if we think along the lines of oppo is bad, they could call with anything and we level ourselves too much
I kinda prefer, o you made a bad call/move and got lucky and got my stack – wp sir! I wish you luck in the future
All in all, I really have not got a problem with a check or a bet – just certain lines we should keep constant – think betting flop is my option has it’s feasible there are a ton of hands we 4 bet pre and continue on this flop while there are only 1 or 2 we check behind
But I am loving our reads + back door equity so a check can't be that bad
I give oppo credit for AAA !
If oppo has 2pr/sets on this flop, should oppo check flop versus hero 4 betting range?