Fold or Call?

smarr

and History #475979717 (23:17 08/02/2012)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceLEE001Small blind £0.10£0.10£50.65DN34689Big blind £0.20£0.30£19.30 Your hole cardsAJ   ICEBRAMFold    CHAMP999Call £0.20£0.50£10.98Buzz444Fold    NeillerFold    CharlieGFold    kosiarzRaise £1.00£1.50£7.17smarrCall £1.00£2.50£17.59LEE001Fold    DN34689Fold    CHAMP999Raise £1.80£4.30£9.18kosiarzCall £1.00£5.30£6.17smarrCall £1.00£6.30£16.59Flop  AQJ   CHAMP999Check    kosiarzCheck    smarrBet £3.15£9.45£13.44CHAMP999All-in £9.18£18.63£0.00kosiarzAll-in £6.17£24.80£0.00      

BorinLoner

Your bet on the flop commits you, but the limp-min-raise from Champ looks like AA pre-flop. I don't think you're ahead here but having bet 1/4 of your stack and 1/3 of the largest other stack on the table, you're committed to the call. It's a crying call though.

You can save yourself some money by 3-betting the hand pre-flop. You'd end up being forced to fold, but you would save money in the hand, I think. I'd be astonished if you weren't drawing dead here or at least in bad shape against QQ. KT could even be in the other guys hand.

Dudeskin8

Defo 3bet pre against short stack with view of getting it in.

Flatting isn't great when he's so short.

When CHAMP has limp 3bet OOP I'd be pretty worried and fold there.

As played it's tricky, but probz fold after preflop action as you only really beat AK/A10 but CHAMPS play looks stronger than TP, even the CRAI on flop.

smarr

Hand History #475979717 (23:16 08/02/2012)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
LEE001	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£50.65
DN34689	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£19.30
	Your hole cards	A J
ICEBRAM	Fold
CHAMP999	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£10.98
Buzz444	Fold
Neiller	Fold
CharlieG	Fold
kosiarz	Raise		£1.00	£1.50	£7.17
smarr	Call		£1.00	£2.50	£17.59
LEE001	Fold
DN34689	Fold
CHAMP999	Raise		£1.80	£4.30	£9.18
kosiarz	Call		£1.00	£5.30	£6.17
smarr	Call		£1.00	£6.30	£16.59
Flop
		A Q J
CHAMP999	Check
kosiarz	Check
smarr	Bet		£3.15	£9.45	£13.44
CHAMP999	All-in		£9.18	£18.63	£0.00
kosiarz	All-in		£6.17	£24.80	£0.00
smarr	Call		£6.03	£30.83	£7.41
CHAMP999	Show	K 10
kosiarz	Show	K 9
smarr	Show	A J
Turn
		6
River
		8
CHAMP999	Win	Straight to the Ace	£29.28		£29.28

i thought his call pre flop was bad??? didnt realise it was my play that was bad. thanks.

Dudeskin8

Don't concern yourself with what he does you can't control him, just try and make yourself better.

BorinLoner

Okay, I'm astonished. A limp-min-raise pre-flop with KT? I would not have predicted that... Still, it can be a good example of why to 3-bet pre-flop. A reasonably large 3-bet here would probably have won you the hand. That might sound like I'm being wise with the benefit of hindsight, but the 3-bet is the optimal play in this situation regardless of the result. It wins us pots in spots like this and helps us get away more cheaply when the opponents have real hands.

smarr

i knew right after the hand was over i should have raised more pre, but again maybe i was just using hindsight. need foresight! lol

grantorino

what so we now 3bet to make KT fold? If you 3bet this pre it should be for value

on flop never fold

BorinLoner

When we're holding AJ, we want to define our hand as being strong, so we can win hands when we miss as well as when we hit. We definitely don't want to play a flop three-handed. AJ is not a hand we're betting for value because it's not that big a hand. The 3-bet also will help define our opponents range, so we can play better against them on the flop.

grantorino

In Response to Re: Fold or Call?:

When we're holding AJ, we want to define our hand as being strong, so we can win hands when we miss as well as when we hit. We definitely don't want to play a flop three-handed. AJ is not a hand we're betting for value because it's not that big a hand. The 3-bet also will help define our opponents range, so we can play better against them on the flop.
Posted by BorinLoner

Really dont get what you are saying

Are we 3betting as a bluff so? Against shorties, one who has raised 5x?

If we cant 3bet for value I'd prefer call and have more equity against a less well defined range

BorinLoner

You don't have to make it a huge 3-bet to sell strength. In this spot you can make it £2.30 or £2.40... The reason is to prevent this going three-handed to the flop whilst also repping a stronger hand than we have. Effectively we are making it a bluff, but with a hand of reasonable value and in position. We'd have to be happy to take it down pre-flop, but if we see massive resistance - a 4-bet - we have to be willing to lay it down too.

AMYBR

Yuk spot pre.

Am never b/fing flop given stack/pot.

Much prefer crai on flop when opting to get it in when lead calling.