Hi Barry. I can't really help much, but as you are a special friend, I don't want to ignore your polite & well-intentioned questions. I do NOT have Authority (with a capital "A") to reply, so this, fwiw, is my personal take.
1) I have no idea.
2) Same answer.
3) If the circumstances changed, & further stuff came to light, yes, of course it can.
4) It's a matter between MickJenn & Sky Poker. My Boss - Sky Des - a man of THE greatest integrity, has already stated, clearly "we do not discuss individual cases publically". There is a reason for that, & it's best to respect it, imo.
I met Mick for, I think, the first time on Saturday, & I found him wholly amenable. That does not alter the facts.
Numerous Players who are NOT Posting on this Thread KNOW the facts. I know some of them, I think, but I won't be commenting further on them.
My take on this Site is quite simple. I want folks to enjoy themselves when they play on Sky Poker, & feel safe in every way when they play here, & know that Sky Poker will act in an honourable & proper way towards them all. I am content that they do exactly that, & when fairness is in doubt, Sky Poker go the extra yard to ensure their patrons are treated fairly.
Hi Barry. I can't really help much, but as you are a special friend, I don't want to ignore your polite & well-intentioned questions. I do NOT have Authority (with a capital "A") to reply, so this, fwiw, is my personal take. 1) I have no idea. 2) Same answer. 3) If the circumstances changed, & further stuff came to light, yes, of course it can. 4) It's a matter between MickJenn & Sky Poker. My Boss - Sky Des - a man of THE greatest integrity, has already stated, clearly "we do not discuss individual cases publically". There is a reason for that, & it's best to respect it, imo. I met Mick for, I think, the first time on Saturday, & I found him wholly amenable. That does not alter the facts. Numerous Players who are NOT Posting on this Thread KNOW the facts. I know some of them, I think, but I won't be commenting further on them. My take on this Site is quite simple. I want folks to enjoy themselves when they play on Sky Poker, & feel safe in every way when they play here, & know that Sky Poker will act in an honourable & proper way towards them all. I am content that they do exactly that, & when fairness is in doubt, Sky Poker go the extra yard to ensure their patrons are treated fairly. Posted by Tikay10
Spot on... talking of fun. Alan has the master plan of our SPT visit to Luton in place already and she is about to come 'home' to Sky after playing the majority on Mr Ivey's site.. they upset her with some banking issues.
If sky has let one member off a life chat ban, then shouldnt we all as sky members be shown the same curtesy.Sky has set a precendant by allowing one sky member which was on a life time ban to be reinstated ???????
In Response to Re: MickJenn1..chat release 8th Nov: [QUOTE]wasnt norbit banned for life and given a second chance...? surely every member of sky should be treated in the same way !!! Posted by beaujolais
In identical circumstance, yes, if the circumstances are different, no - obviously!
This Thread is NOT helping Mick. I'm a total pacifist, & a soft so & so, & I want EVERY player, Mick included, to be welcome here, & to chat freely.
But with Sky Poker being called "fools" by folks who don't know the facts, & talk of peitions & suchlike by players who may well be apalled if they knew the facts, the case is never gonna make much progress.
Mick's cause is best served if he writes to Sky Poker privately, & explains the circumstances of certain things. If he says the right things, who says he wion't get a second chance? Not me, not Sky Poker.
Trying to bully the Site into restoring his Chat Priveleges is a kite that ain't gonna fly. Only Mick can sort it out, & if he wants to contest it, I wish him well. But my advice is do it quietly, in the back garden, because standing in the street shouting & hollering won't solve anything.
I had an e-Mail from Mick last night by the way, & I've forwarded it to the Suits for their consideration & perusal. That's a far more effective & efficient means to resolve this than this Thread, & allegations that Sky Poker & it's staff are "fools".
If sky has let one member off a life chat ban, then shouldnt we all as sky members be shown the same curtesy.Sky has set a precendant by allowing one sky member which was on a life time ban to be reinstated ??????? Posted by mona-lisa
Perhaps the circumstances were different?
How do you know that Mick will not be re-instated at some point?
Hi all I agree with tikay, we have got to be civil, calling anyone a fool is not going to help solve the problem, a couple of wider issues have arisen however, that I feel need clarification, and hope one of the Sky team can tell me. 1: Are the forums and chat separate entities? 2: Can punishment in one be transferred to the other? 3: If this can happen, can the punishment be increased? 4: I think we definitely need a way of being able to ask for a review and or appeal. This is not just for the recent events, but also for the whole of the forum, and all players. Posted by acebarry10
I think a lot of us know the full details of Mick's actions. They weren't big, and they certainly weren't clever. I would be happy for Sky to ban his chat privelages for life for what he did, but they didn't - they handed out a 3 month ban. Mick then did more stupid things on the forum, and was banned from there. At that time Sky could have told him that they were banning him for life from chat as well - I don't think there would have been may arguments. They didn't. Natural justice suggests that once someone is punished, you can't change or extend the punishment. I know it's only chatting on a web-site, but we live in such a place that we like to see natural justice extended from the most serious to the most minor situations - it's something about fair play and Britishness (in a totally non-fascist way). I hear what Tikay is saying regarding Mick being better served by making personal approach, and I agree (he told me he was sending Tikay an e-mail) - all we're doing here is talking about it - that's another British thing. We may not put the world to rights, but we like to reserve the right to talk the talk.
In Response to Re: MickJenn1..chat release 8th Nov: Mick's cause is best served if he writes to Sky Poker privately, & explains the circumstances of certain things. If he says the right things, who says he wion't get a second chance? Not me, not Sky Poker. Trying to bully the Site into restoring his Chat Priveleges is a kite that ain't gonna fly. Only Mick can sort it out, & if he wants to contest it, I wish him well. But my advice is do it quietly, in the back garden, because standing in the street shouting & hollering won't solve anything. I had an e-Mail from Mick last night by the way, & I've forwarded it to the Suits for their consideration & perusal. That's a far more effective & efficient means to resolve this than this Thread, & allegations that Sky Poker & it's staff are "fools". Posted by Tikay10
Well said Sir...
"So often times it happens, we live our lives in chains, and we never even new we had the key"
But do you seriously think that folks calling Sky Poker "fools" for what's happened, when they do NOT know the facts, will help Mick, or anyone else, for that matter?
The censure/penalty was changed, & changed for a reason. You can see that, I'm sure. You're an Optician, after all.
It's a little bizarre that Sky Poker are being labelled as the Villains in this matter, if you think about it......
Hi Barry. I can't really help much, but as you are a special friend, I don't want to ignore your polite & well-intentioned questions. I do NOT have Authority (with a capital "A") to reply, so this, fwiw, is my personal take. 1) I have no idea. 2) Same answer. 3) If the circumstances changed, & further stuff came to light, yes, of course it can. 4) It's a matter between MickJenn & Sky Poker. My Boss - Sky Des - a man of THE greatest integrity, has already stated, clearly "we do not discuss individual cases publically". There is a reason for that, & it's best to respect it, imo. I met Mick for, I think, the first time on Saturday, & I found him wholly amenable. That does not alter the facts. Numerous Players who are NOT Posting on this Thread KNOW the facts. I know some of them, I think, but I won't be commenting further on them. My take on this Site is quite simple. I want folks to enjoy themselves when they play on Sky Poker, & feel safe in every way when they play here, & know that Sky Poker will act in an honourable & proper way towards them all. I am content that they do exactly that, & when fairness is in doubt, Sky Poker go the extra yard to ensure their patrons are treated fairly. Posted by Tikay10
Hi tikay
Many, many thanks for your response, it is greatly appreciated, and am deeply homoured to be counted as a special friend, obviously confidentiality has to be taken very seriously which is the reason I asked the questions as I did, so as to keep it broad, but not infringe on anyone, the reason I asked,was, I was going to suggest to mickjenn exactly what he has done and write to the suits, so have been pre-emted, I think someone may have suggetsed that too him, so whomever it was, nice one. I think all we can do now is wait and see what decision is made, I am certainly confident that the right decsion will be made, whichever way it goes, good luck mickjenn. Now let the powers that be make thier decison in peace.
I THINK YOUR FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE HERE. SKY IS A BIG COMPANY AND FOR ALL THOSE WHO WORK FOR THEM WITH THE ABILITY TO SHOW SOME COMPASION. THE FINAL DECISION (UNFORTUNATLY) USUALY END UP WITH SOMEONE WHO IS IN SOME WAY SHAPE OR FORM A LAWYER. WHO WILL SAY WHAT IF WE LET HIM OF HIS BAN AND HE DOES TO SOMEONE WHAT (IF MY MEMORY AND WHAT WAS REPORTED OR SEEN BY OTHERS) HE WAS THREATENING TO DO TO ANOUTHER PLAYER. WE (SKY) COULD BE SEEN NOT TO HAVE FUFILLED OUR DUTY OF CARE TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND BE WIDE OPEN TO LEGAL ACTION. IVE NEVER MET MICK BUT PEOLPE ON HERE WHOS OPINIONS I RESPET (ACEBARRY,BENNYDIP AND TIKAY TO NAME A FEW) SAY HES A NICE GUY. SO IF YOU KNOW MICK THE BEST WAY FORWARD WOULD BE TO MSN OR SOMEOTHER LIVE CHAT WHEN PLAYING HIM. AND IF HE WANTS TO SET UP A MICKJENN CHATSITE WE COULD ALL GO THERE FOR A GOOD LAUGH. SO COME ON PEOPLE LAY OF TIKAY,SKYRICH,SKYDES EXCETRA IVE ALWAYS FOUND THEM ALL TO BE FAIR AND HONEST BUT IF THE LEGAL BODS SAY NO IM AFRAID MICKJENNS DOOMED
Talk away Eyeman, I'm always game to talk. But do you seriously think that folks calling Sky Poker "fools" for what's happened, when they do NOT know the facts, will help Mick, or anyone else, for that matter? The censure/penalty was changed, & changed for a reason. You can see that, I'm sure. You're an Optician, after all. It's a little bizarre that Sky Poker are being labelled as the Villains in this matter, if you think about it...... Posted by Tikay10
I don't think anything said in this thread one way or the other will make a blind (sic) bit of difference. We are "outraged of Tunbridge Wells", and Sky has set up a platform for our outrage. When Sky created the "community" it was a very clever bit of marketing. Customer loyalty is an invaluable commodity, let's not believe this was all about being cuddly. In an odd way, the chat box had already given us a community - I have a number of "Skypoker" friends on Facebook including Mickjenn, Greghogg - indeed including yourself and that occasional pokerfish Mr Orford. Once you give something like this life, you can't be surprised if that community starts to support one-another in hardship. When one of our own suffers a perceived injustice, we'll pull together.
And I'd be disappointed if the Community did not look after it's own. Remember, I am a Community Member too, & you could not even begin to imagine how hard I fight for Player's rights.
But it's interesting you mention the Facebook network, & the circle of Sky Poker pals on there, of which, even though I don't open Facebook more than once every 6 months, I'm keenly aware of. I know what has gone off on there, as I get e-Mailed notificatiions of certain Facebook threads.
If I were you, I'd take a good look at some of the Sky Poker related people on there, & what was said by whom, & to whom, & when.
I have purposely avoided comment on this up to now as I am not aware of all the facts surrounding this. It is unfortunate that this has arisen and the feelings of fellow forum members are understandable. However, very few people will know all the facts and therefore to continue to go round in circles on this is probably counter productive. The decision made by the Sky Mods was I'm sure based on the facts as they saw them and they will not have taken their decision lightly. Pressure from forum members will, I fear, have little effect on their decision and may even promote a 'backs against the wall' mentality which won't help. I think we should all trust that the powers that be have got the message and will reconsider the ban.
As I started by saying, I don't know all the facts as I'm sure most people don't. I have no opinion therefore about the length of ban or it's fairness and validity. I think we should all now stand back and allow the Sky mods to take account of what has been said and leave the ball in their court.
Hi All, For my part, i am not going to try and put any pressure or influence this in any way, but having talked to Mick at Manchester, i found him to be very nice, funny and affable. He was looking forward to being able to post again and i was shocked when i found out his ban was extended to a life ban. There must have been reasons for this and i dont know what has gone on before, so therefore cant make an informed decision on the matter. Mick, would and will be welcomed back by most of us/ not all though, i suspect.
Hi All, For my part, i am not going to try and put any pressure or influence this in any way, but having talked to Mick at Manchester, i found him to be very nice, funny and affable. He was looking forward to being able to post again and i was shocked when i found out his ban was extended to a life ban. There must have been reasons for this and i dont know what has gone on before, so therefore cant make an informed decision on the matter. Mick, would and will be welcomed back by most of us/ not all though, i suspect. col Posted by mr_mbro
Hi all I agree with tikay, we have got to be civil, calling anyone a fool is not going to help solve the problem, a couple of wider issues have arisen however, that I feel need clarification, and hope one of the Sky team can tell me. 1: Are the forums and chat separate entities? 2: Can punishment in one be transferred to the other? 3: If this can happen, can the punishment be increased? 4: I think we definitely need a way of being able to ask for a review and or appeal. This is not just for the recent events, but also for the whole of the forum, and all players. Posted by acebarry10
Comments
Hi Barry. I can't really help much, but as you are a special friend, I don't want to ignore your polite & well-intentioned questions. I do NOT have Authority (with a capital "A") to reply, so this, fwiw, is my personal take.
1) I have no idea.
2) Same answer.
3) If the circumstances changed, & further stuff came to light, yes, of course it can.
4) It's a matter between MickJenn & Sky Poker. My Boss - Sky Des - a man of THE greatest integrity, has already stated, clearly "we do not discuss individual cases publically". There is a reason for that, & it's best to respect it, imo.
I met Mick for, I think, the first time on Saturday, & I found him wholly amenable. That does not alter the facts.
Numerous Players who are NOT Posting on this Thread KNOW the facts. I know some of them, I think, but I won't be commenting further on them.
My take on this Site is quite simple. I want folks to enjoy themselves when they play on Sky Poker, & feel safe in every way when they play here, & know that Sky Poker will act in an honourable & proper way towards them all. I am content that they do exactly that, & when fairness is in doubt, Sky Poker go the extra yard to ensure their patrons are treated fairly.
If sky has let one member off a life chat ban, then shouldnt we all as sky members be shown the same curtesy.Sky has set a precendant by allowing one sky member which was on a life time ban to be reinstated ???????
[QUOTE]wasnt norbit banned for life and given a second chance...? surely every member of sky should be treated in the same way !!!
Posted by beaujolais
In identical circumstance, yes, if the circumstances are different, no - obviously!
This Thread is NOT helping Mick. I'm a total pacifist, & a soft so & so, & I want EVERY player, Mick included, to be welcome here, & to chat freely.
But with Sky Poker being called "fools" by folks who don't know the facts, & talk of peitions & suchlike by players who may well be apalled if they knew the facts, the case is never gonna make much progress.
Mick's cause is best served if he writes to Sky Poker privately, & explains the circumstances of certain things. If he says the right things, who says he wion't get a second chance? Not me, not Sky Poker.
Trying to bully the Site into restoring his Chat Priveleges is a kite that ain't gonna fly. Only Mick can sort it out, & if he wants to contest it, I wish him well. But my advice is do it quietly, in the back garden, because standing in the street shouting & hollering won't solve anything.
I had an e-Mail from Mick last night by the way, & I've forwarded it to the Suits for their consideration & perusal. That's a far more effective & efficient means to resolve this than this Thread, & allegations that Sky Poker & it's staff are "fools".
How do you know that Mick will not be re-instated at some point?
I would be happy for Sky to ban his chat privelages for life for what he did, but they didn't - they handed out a 3 month ban.
Mick then did more stupid things on the forum, and was banned from there.
At that time Sky could have told him that they were banning him for life from chat as well - I don't think there would have been may arguments. They didn't.
Natural justice suggests that once someone is punished, you can't change or extend the punishment.
I know it's only chatting on a web-site, but we live in such a place that we like to see natural justice extended from the most serious to the most minor situations - it's something about fair play and Britishness (in a totally non-fascist way).
I hear what Tikay is saying regarding Mick being better served by making personal approach, and I agree (he told me he was sending Tikay an e-mail) - all we're doing here is talking about it - that's another British thing. We may not put the world to rights, but we like to reserve the right to talk the talk.
Mick's cause is best served if he writes to Sky Poker privately, & explains the circumstances of certain things. If he says the right things, who says he wion't get a second chance? Not me, not Sky Poker. Trying to bully the Site into restoring his Chat Priveleges is a kite that ain't gonna fly. Only Mick can sort it out, & if he wants to contest it, I wish him well. But my advice is do it quietly, in the back garden, because standing in the street shouting & hollering won't solve anything. I had an e-Mail from Mick last night by the way, & I've forwarded it to the Suits for their consideration & perusal. That's a far more effective & efficient means to resolve this than this Thread, & allegations that Sky Poker & it's staff are "fools".
Posted by Tikay10
"So often times it happens, we live our lives in chains, and we never even new we had the key"
Talk away Eyeman, I'm always game to talk.
But do you seriously think that folks calling Sky Poker "fools" for what's happened, when they do NOT know the facts, will help Mick, or anyone else, for that matter?
The censure/penalty was changed, & changed for a reason. You can see that, I'm sure. You're an Optician, after all.
It's a little bizarre that Sky Poker are being labelled as the Villains in this matter, if you think about it......
Many, many thanks for your response, it is greatly appreciated, and am deeply homoured to be counted as a special friend, obviously confidentiality has to be taken very seriously which is the reason I asked the questions as I did, so as to keep it broad, but not infringe on anyone, the reason I asked,was, I was going to suggest to mickjenn exactly what he has done and write to the suits, so have been pre-emted, I think someone may have suggetsed that too him, so whomever it was, nice one. I think all we can do now is wait and see what decision is made, I am certainly confident that the right decsion will be made, whichever way it goes, good luck mickjenn. Now let the powers that be make thier decison in peace.
SKY IS A BIG COMPANY AND FOR ALL THOSE WHO WORK FOR THEM WITH THE ABILITY TO SHOW SOME COMPASION.
THE FINAL DECISION (UNFORTUNATLY) USUALY END UP WITH SOMEONE WHO IS IN SOME WAY SHAPE OR FORM A LAWYER.
WHO WILL SAY WHAT IF WE LET HIM OF HIS BAN AND HE DOES TO SOMEONE WHAT (IF MY MEMORY AND WHAT WAS REPORTED OR SEEN BY OTHERS) HE WAS THREATENING TO DO TO ANOUTHER PLAYER.
WE (SKY) COULD BE SEEN NOT TO HAVE FUFILLED OUR DUTY OF CARE TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND BE WIDE OPEN TO LEGAL ACTION.
IVE NEVER MET MICK BUT PEOLPE ON HERE WHOS OPINIONS I RESPET (ACEBARRY,BENNYDIP AND TIKAY TO NAME A FEW) SAY HES A NICE GUY. SO IF YOU KNOW MICK THE BEST WAY FORWARD WOULD BE TO MSN OR SOMEOTHER LIVE CHAT WHEN PLAYING HIM. AND IF HE WANTS TO SET UP A MICKJENN CHATSITE WE COULD ALL GO THERE FOR A GOOD LAUGH.
SO COME ON PEOPLE LAY OF TIKAY,SKYRICH,SKYDES EXCETRA IVE ALWAYS FOUND THEM ALL TO BE FAIR AND HONEST BUT IF THE LEGAL BODS SAY NO IM AFRAID MICKJENNS DOOMED
When Sky created the "community" it was a very clever bit of marketing. Customer loyalty is an invaluable commodity, let's not believe this was all about being cuddly. In an odd way, the chat box had already given us a community - I have a number of "Skypoker" friends on Facebook including Mickjenn, Greghogg - indeed including yourself and that occasional pokerfish Mr Orford. Once you give something like this life, you can't be surprised if that community starts to support one-another in hardship. When one of our own suffers a perceived injustice, we'll pull together.
I agree with most of that Eyeman.
And I'd be disappointed if the Community did not look after it's own. Remember, I am a Community Member too, & you could not even begin to imagine how hard I fight for Player's rights.
But it's interesting you mention the Facebook network, & the circle of Sky Poker pals on there, of which, even though I don't open Facebook more than once every 6 months, I'm keenly aware of. I know what has gone off on there, as I get e-Mailed notificatiions of certain Facebook threads.
If I were you, I'd take a good look at some of the Sky Poker related people on there, & what was said by whom, & to whom, & when.
I have purposely avoided comment on this up to now as I am not aware of all the facts surrounding this. It is unfortunate that this has arisen and the feelings of fellow forum members are understandable. However, very few people will know all the facts and therefore to continue to go round in circles on this is probably counter productive. The decision made by the Sky Mods was I'm sure based on the facts as they saw them and they will not have taken their decision lightly. Pressure from forum members will, I fear, have little effect on their decision and may even promote a 'backs against the wall' mentality which won't help. I think we should all trust that the powers that be have got the message and will reconsider the ban.
As I started by saying, I don't know all the facts as I'm sure most people don't. I have no opinion therefore about the length of ban or it's fairness and validity. I think we should all now stand back and allow the Sky mods to take account of what has been said and leave the ball in their court.
For my part, i am not going to try and put any pressure or influence this in any way, but having talked to Mick at Manchester, i found him to be very nice, funny and affable.
He was looking forward to being able to post again and i was shocked when i found out his ban was extended to a life ban.
There must have been reasons for this and i dont know what has gone on before, so therefore cant make an informed decision on the matter.
Mick, would and will be welcomed back by most of us/ not all though, i suspect.
col