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Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier

StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,197
edited February 2012 in Poker Chat
Hi Tikay, or anyone who may be able to help.

I have been playing poker recreationally for a few years now and over the last 6 months my results have been quite good.

I am considering playing for a living, but have a couple of questions about tax on poker winnings.

Firstly, in the UK, is it correct that poker winnings are tax free?

Secondly, if I were fortunate enough to be sponsored for tournaments, does that change anything about the tax issue?

Thirdly, presumably potential advertising revenue would be taxable.

Many thanks

Graham (STAYORGO)
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2012
    Hey dude, I replied to your post in the Ask Tikay thread if you wanna go have a look.
  • MachkaMachka Member Posts: 4,627
    edited February 2012
    Hi, just so you know I deleted the duplicate thread.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2012
    It's true they don't pay tax on poker winnings, not sure about being sponsored for tournaments but I'd imagine you still wouldn't pay tax on it cos it's still poker winnings, but yeah advertising revnue would be taxable because it's essentially a job; a company is paying you to advertise for them.

    However, unless you have like zero responsibility and can just give it a go and not really care if it fails, I would recommend waiting ALOT more than 6 months of things going well before deciding you can do it as a living.

    What stakes do you pay and how much are you winning per month? I'm not bothered if you don't wanna post how much you win a month, but just take an average of them 6 months and are you consistently making £1500+ a month, because otherwise it's gonna be pretty easy to beat that with a normal job and still earn say £400 a month on the side.
  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    It's true they don't pay tax on poker winnings, not sure about being sponsored for tournaments but I'd imagine you still wouldn't pay tax on it cos it's still poker winnings, but yeah advertising revnue would be taxable because it's essentially a job; a company is paying you to advertise for them. However, unless you have like zero responsibility and can just give it a go and not really care if it fails, I would recommend waiting ALOT more than 6 months of things going well before deciding you can do it as a living. What stakes do you pay and how much are you winning per month? I'm not bothered if you don't wanna post how much you win a month, but just take an average of them 6 months and are you consistently making £1500+ a month, because otherwise it's gonna be pretty easy to beat that with a normal job and still earn say £400 a month on the side.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Hi, thanks for the feedback Lambert, my combined sharkscopes of my two poker accounts are just over $30K profit in the last 6 months. $20K of tthat in last 2 months as I am still learning/progressing, playing average stake MTT of $25.
    Now my average MTT is about $100

    I'm thinking of giving it another two months to get to $50K profit, then giving it a go. Does that sound feasible?

    Thanks again for the feedback.

    Cheers Graham (STAYORGO)
  • BigBlusterBigBluster Member Posts: 1,075
    edited February 2012
    No. Poker pros don't pay tax on their earnings. Sales professionals do, so do medical professionals, construction professionals, warehouse professionals etc but poker professionals do not.

    This has been debated extensively and is a sore point for many. You see all those poker pros on TV? Well you are paying for their kids' education, their dentists, their police etc and they're not contributing to yours! If you're on a minimum wage and a poker pro is taking home 200k per year - guess who subsidises who. Yep - you guessed it!

    It always makes me laugh when people are asked "Which poker pro do you admire most?" If they ever asked me (they wouldn't) the answer would be "Any of them who decides to pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of taking from it".

    Oh - they do pay VAT on their purchases though. And council tax. Just like everyone else.


  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2012
    If you do that and are genuinely making $20k profit in 2 months, JUST from MTTs then that's pretty impressive!

    Are you playing a massive amount of tournaments or have you been getting a few big cashes cos obviously you need to know that even if you're Phil Ivey you could still go through a patch of not winning anything for a long time (depending on how many tournies you play).

    Like I said in my other post, I dunno what your situation is in terms of responsibility, whether you have kids/a family, live in your own place and so pay all your own bills and stuff, but I remember a long time ago a guy on here called Gliterbabe who is a VERY good player who plays full-time said that before you start you should make sure you have enough money aside so that if you didn't win/withdraw any money you'd be able to pay your bills for 6 months out of your own pocket.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    No. Poker pros don't pay tax on their earnings. Sales professionals do, so do medical professionals, construction professionals, warehouse professionals etc but poker professionals do not. This has been debated extensively and is a sore point for many. You see all those poker pros on TV? Well you are paying for their kids' education, their dentists, their police etc and they're not contributing to yours! If you're on a minimum wage and a poker pro is taking home 200k per year - guess who subsidises who. Yep - you guessed it! It always makes me laugh when people are asked "Which poker pro do you admire most?" If they ever asked me (they wouldn't) the answer would be "Any of them who decides to pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of taking from it". Oh - they do pay VAT on their purchases though. And council tax. Just like everyone else.
    Posted by BigBluster
    I had this discussion with my mum the other day, and I don't see how you could possibly tax poker players. As Tikay mentioned once, if you tax them, then you need to allow them to offset their losses against tax. And if you tax poker players then I think you need to tax all gambling, and who'd be particuarly impressed when you put a £5 bet on footy, win £20 and then get a chunk of it taken back, it would change all the odds. Or people who play roulette at the casino, you gonna have a guy taking tax off everyone as they cash their chips out?
  • MachkaMachka Member Posts: 4,627
    edited February 2012
    Surely net taxes on poker winnings would be zero. 

    Virtually all money from poker comes from players so,

    all winnings - all losses = zero or near enough

    Would seem like a lot of a trouble to set up a taxation system to claim back nought.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    Surely net taxes on poker winnings would be zero.  Virtually all money from poker comes from players so, all winnings - all losses = zero or near enough Would seem like a lot of a trouble to set up a taxation system to claim back nought.
    Posted by Machka
    +1

    Very very true, never thought of it like that.
  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    No. Poker pros don't pay tax on their earnings. Sales professionals do, so do medical professionals, construction professionals, warehouse professionals etc but poker professionals do not. This has been debated extensively and is a sore point for many. You see all those poker pros on TV? Well you are paying for their kids' education, their dentists, their police etc and they're not contributing to yours! If you're on a minimum wage and a poker pro is taking home 200k per year - guess who subsidises who. Yep - you guessed it! It always makes me laugh when people are asked "Which poker pro do you admire most?" If they ever asked me (they wouldn't) the answer would be "Any of them who decides to pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of taking from it". Oh - they do pay VAT on their purchases though. And council tax. Just like everyone else.
    Posted by BigBluster
    And capital gains, national insurance, inheritance tax, stamp duty, customs duty...

    In reality a person on minimum wage, even working full time, wouldn't be contributing much income tax after tax allowance. And certainly wouldn't be a net contributor. So they wouldn't be subsidising anybody.

    Income tax is only one of four 'direct taxes'. And only one of about twenty taxes over all. 
  • OopnorthOopnorth Member Posts: 157
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    Surely net taxes on poker winnings would be zero.  Virtually all money from poker comes from players so, all winnings - all losses = zero or near enough Would seem like a lot of a trouble to set up a taxation system to claim back nought.
    Posted by Machka
    Surely the reasoning is simpler,,   if a person is taxed n profits from poker, the system would also thereby have to tax refund a person on their losses , a much bigger and more complex set of people, so it is much simpler to keep it as it is.
  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    No. Poker pros don't pay tax on their earnings. Sales professionals do, so do medical professionals, construction professionals, warehouse professionals etc but poker professionals do not. This has been debated extensively and is a sore point for many. You see all those poker pros on TV? Well you are paying for their kids' education, their dentists, their police etc and they're not contributing to yours! If you're on a minimum wage and a poker pro is taking home 200k per year - guess who subsidises who. Yep - you guessed it! It always makes me laugh when people are asked "Which poker pro do you admire most?" If they ever asked me (they wouldn't) the answer would be "Any of them who decides to pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of taking from it". Oh - they do pay VAT on their purchases though. And council tax. Just like everyone else.
    Posted by BigBluster

    Pro poker players make a lot of money for the site.

    The Site makes a lot of money that is taxed.

    Therefore poker players DO contribute to tax...


















    QED
  • GliterBabeGliterBabe Member Posts: 361
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    No. Poker pros don't pay tax on their earnings. Sales professionals do, so do medical professionals, construction professionals, warehouse professionals etc but poker professionals do not. This has been debated extensively and is a sore point for many. You see all those poker pros on TV? Well you are paying for their kids' education, their dentists, their police etc and they're not contributing to yours! If you're on a minimum wage and a poker pro is taking home 200k per year - guess who subsidises who. Yep - you guessed it! It always makes me laugh when people are asked "Which poker pro do you admire most?" If they ever asked me (they wouldn't) the answer would be "Any of them who decides to pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of taking from it". Oh - they do pay VAT on their purchases though. And council tax. Just like everyone else.
    Posted by BigBluster
    Just for the record....I know this wasn't directed straight at me but feel I'm part of your thought process!!! Before I decided to play poker fulltime I worked fulltime for 20 years, yes 20 years of paying tax and NI...10 years of that time I paid Private medical cover and continue to do so and I'm also fully up to date with NI contributions ( 30 years contributions is the goal )...I think your view is pretty flawed to be honest and please correct me if I'm wrong , but maybe as far back as 10 years maybe less the government abolished levy/tax on all gaming and instead taxed the profits of what the companies made.... So in a roundabout way all monies that sky rake in are taxed at their end .... So I'm pretty sure myself and all the other players are contributing nicely to society...
  • MachkaMachka Member Posts: 4,627
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier : And capital gains, national insurance, inheritance tax, stamp duty, customs duty... In reality a person on minimum wage, even working full time, wouldn't be contributing much income tax after tax allowance. And certainly wouldn't be a net contributor. So they wouldn't be subsidising anybody. Income tax is only one of four 'direct taxes'. And only one of about twenty taxes over all. 
    Posted by BrownnDog
    Not forgetting all the additional air passenger duty, fuel duty and insurance premium tax you'd pay on all those expensive holidays, flights and cars all the big winners obviously have.
  • offshootoffshoot Member Posts: 1,049
    edited February 2012
    "Any of them who decides to pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of taking from it"

    Its not our decison to whether we pay tax, its the governments. If they started taxing poker then i would pay no problem, youre making out like were tax dodgers.
  • offshootoffshoot Member Posts: 1,049
    edited February 2012
    OP - dont quit your day job. If youve managed to make that much with a job then continue to do so. Maybe after a year you can re-evaluate but you probably have no idea of how cruel variance can be yet.
  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP Member Posts: 351
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Tax on Poker winnings - Sorry think I put this on wrong thread earlier:
    OP - dont quit your day job. If youve managed to make that much with a job then continue to do so. Maybe after a year you can re-evaluate but you probably have no idea of how cruel variance can be yet.
    Posted by offshoot
    Best advice ever
  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited February 2012
    You're on a heater, don't go 'pro'.
  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited February 2012
    The above advice about not quitting your job is especially true if you only play MTT's.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,947
    edited February 2012
    Buy a car, keep job - book holiday )

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