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Do i make this call against 3 all ins?

davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
edited February 2012 in The Poker Clinic
£5 BH , only level 2.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
BA677 Small blind  15.00 15.00 1745.00
davelufc Big blind  30.00 45.00 1900.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • K
     
gamekeep69 Fold     
ratman4423 Call  30.00 75.00 2420.00
XKJAG Call  30.00 105.00 2360.00
steviegl07 Call  30.00 135.00 1700.00
BA677 Call  15.00 150.00 1730.00
davelufc Raise  120.00 270.00 1780.00
ratman4423 Call  120.00 390.00 2300.00
XKJAG Call  120.00 510.00 2240.00
steviegl07 Call  120.00 630.00 1580.00
BA677 Call  120.00 750.00 1610.00
Flop
   
  • A
  • 10
  • 8
     
BA677 Check     
davelufc Bet  750.00 1500.00 1030.00
ratman4423 All-in  2300.00 3800.00 0.00
XKJAG All-in  2240.00 6040.00 0.00
steviegl07 All-in  1580.00 7620.00 0.00
BA677 Fold     
davelufc ?   

Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited February 2012
    I don't think folding TPTK in a BH is EVER going to be good, and after that pot bet you can't fold.

    Looks bad with 3 all ins but trust me they can have ANYTHING here cus they 'gone golly wanna get dat dare bounty'
  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited February 2012
    Hate these spots pre.

    Cant lead pot fold tho., prefer c/r.

    But as played I call.

    At this stage of tourney I dont hate checking in BB pre either.  May just shove tho and hope 1 dominated hand calls.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited February 2012
    Yeah, your bet sizes have got you in all sorts of trouble. I don't think I'd make the call once I get to this point but it's a horrible fold to make. I don't play many bounty hunters these days but I can't really see top pair beating three all-ins. I understand what people are saying about being committed having lead for 750 of our 1780 stack on the flop, but I can't imagine we have the best hand so we could have just 3 clean outs or fewer - needing back door hands to come in. Don't follow up your other mistakes with one more: We still have 33BB if we fold so it's not all over by any means.

    Your pre-flop raise isn't enough. You offer pot odds of nearly 2.5/1 to the first limper and progressively better to each subsequent limper. You give yourself a strong chance of seeing the flop five-handed, which is what happened.

    On the flop; leading out for more than 1/3 of our stack is bad, since in normal circumstances nobody will now be able to bluff us with hands we beat and we "can't" fold when better hands shove on us. I say "can't" because that would be the conventional wisdom, but when we think we are well beaten we can fold. Nobody will arrest us for it. It would be a mistake to call if we think we can't ever win and there's a good chance of that here. It's not a fold that will make us look good, but we'll still be in the tournament.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited February 2012
    So if you're going to raise pre-flop, raise more - maybe 180-270 - or if you're going to lead out on the flop, just shove.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited February 2012
    I just want to emphasise that I don't play many Bounty Hunters. I know they can be a bit wild but even so I'm struggling convince myself that I can make a call here.
  • davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
    edited February 2012
    Blew it !!!!
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    BA677 Small blind  15.00 15.00 1745.00
    davelufc Big blind  30.00 45.00 1900.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • K
         
    gamekeep69 Fold     
    ratman4423 Call  30.00 75.00 2420.00
    XKJAG Call  30.00 105.00 2360.00
    steviegl07 Call  30.00 135.00 1700.00
    BA677 Call  15.00 150.00 1730.00
    davelufc Raise  120.00 270.00 1780.00
    ratman4423 Call  120.00 390.00 2300.00
    XKJAG Call  120.00 510.00 2240.00
    steviegl07 Call  120.00 630.00 1580.00
    BA677 Call  120.00 750.00 1610.00
    Flop
       
    • A
    • 10
    • 8
         
    BA677 Check     
    davelufc Bet  750.00 1500.00 1030.00
    ratman4423 All-in  2300.00 3800.00 0.00
    XKJAG All-in  2240.00 6040.00 0.00
    steviegl07 All-in  1580.00 7620.00 0.00
    BA677 Fold     
    davelufc All-in  1030.00 8650.00 0.00
    ratman4423 Unmatched bet  60.00 8590.00 60.00
    davelufc Show
    • A
    • K
       
    ratman4423 Show
    • J
    • Q
       
    XKJAG Show
    • 10
    • A
       
    steviegl07 Show
    • 5
    • K
       
    Turn
       
    • Q
         
    River
       
    • 4
         
    XKJAG Win Flush to the Ace 8590.00  8590.00
  • ballboyballboy Member Posts: 162
    edited February 2012
    You have to think v all those hands even if you are a favorite at that point, your equity in the hand suggests its not going to stay that way.

    Someone may have a hand like A-5 of hearts which would normally be about a flip v top pair when its a pair and a flush draw, but the set outs (2 aces) are not live. That is about 45% equity v your hand

    Add someone with J-9 to the mix who would be on a straight draw. Assuming two of the straight outs aren't live if someone is on a flush draw, they would have 20% equity whilst your AK would be down to 35% with the A-5 of hearts at 44%.

    I am struggling to think of a third hand. Possibly a set of 8s could be an option

    This would reduce your equity to about 1.5% which is running cards. The second hand would be at 31% and the straight draw at 16%.


    If you can think of 3 hands to run against that maintain good equity in the hand then its a fair call, but v multiple opponents your probably struggling there.


    Out of interest. What did you do? In 15 seconds of thought I might not be able to fold there
  • ballboyballboy Member Posts: 162
    edited February 2012
    That was unlucky.

    V four lesser hands your equity was the lowest of 4 players after the flop even though 2 were on draws.

    The JQ is perhaps not the worst call with the double gutshot draw. The A-10 obviously can't fold. He had 52% equity in the hand. The guy on the flush draw  once the other 2 have shoved is getting the right odds to call for his flush draw, although as I showed in the other post its hard to work out your equity v multiple opponents.

    http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tools/odds-calculator/texas-holdem

    this is quite a useful tool, if anyone needs it
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