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Awkward pre flop spot with QQ in Primo
JackoG9
Member Posts: 69
Sat in top 20-ish of Primo and going well.
Villain 2 had been relatively active and Villain 3 had been calling quite a lot. Even so, this flat of the 3 bet had me most worried particularly as my image is probably quite tight and I've had the goods in virtually all pots I've shown down. I pretty much discounted Villain 1 who called my initial bet.
Interested in any thoughts on my next move.
Villain 2 had been relatively active and Villain 3 had been calling quite a lot. Even so, this flat of the 3 bet had me most worried particularly as my image is probably quite tight and I've had the goods in virtually all pots I've shown down. I pretty much discounted Villain 1 who called my initial bet.
Interested in any thoughts on my next move.
| johnyp8603 | Small blind | 50.00 | 50.00 | 10692.50 | |
| Villain 3 | Big blind | 100.00 | 150.00 | 5985.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| JackoG9 | Raise | 300.00 | 450.00 | 9157.50 | |
| Villain 1 | Call | 300.00 | 750.00 | 5862.50 | |
| luckylinda | Fold | ||||
| Villain 2 | Raise | 1100.00 | 1850.00 | 5426.00 | |
| johnyp8603 | Fold | ||||
| Villain 3 | Call | 1000.00 | 2850.00 | 4985.00 | |
| JackoG9 | ?? |
Comments
Flat, play poker
Your either way ahead or way behind, 4 betting achieves little – if vil 1 flats again then that would be annoying especially if they spike a set
Going to be facing c bet on flop so……
Good luck, tough spot
I think I prob shove even though our equity when called wont be great, flatting is going to make life pretty difficult postflop, esp if we are folding to a cbet. Also coxy in line you suggest what do we do if v3 leads a low board? Interesting spot though
i think you're giving people too much credit, people stack off with much much worse than AK, QQ+ 60bbs deep in the ME on sky (even if they probably shouldn't). Considering that by the OP's admission the button has been pretty active, his 3betting range from the button isn't that narrow imo. I don't think a fairly aggressive player is going to be 3/bet folding stuff like JJ/TT, so I don't think we're getting called by a tight a range as you think.
But taking your calling range as an example, here is our equity againt AK, QQ+:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.207% 38.35% 01.86% 114253440 5540034.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 59.793% 57.93% 01.86% 172607388 5540034.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Assuming for a second that we can treat the money from the other villains as dead (which i don't think is unreasonable giving the reads on villain 3) then we need ~42% equity by my calculations, and we nearly have that when called by that range. Adding to the fact that his 3betting range will be at least slightly wider than his calling range, it definitely makes shoving +chip ev imo.
+chip ev doesn't necessarily mean that it's the correct move in a tournament, but when you consider that the prize structures in these tournies are so top heavy i'm shoving all day long.
Thanks for the replies all, very interesting. This was my reasoning behind shoving - again, all comments are welcome.
V2 had been active, particularly in position, and I figured the 3 bet was likely to be a squeeze, given V1's call.
V3's cold call of the 3 bet was more of a worry. I've seen this player mentioned on 865 and known as a decent MTT player so capable of flatting here to induce a shove behind, but came to the conclusion there was enough in the middle already for AA / KK to shove. Was pretty shocked at what was turned over.
Coxy - thanks for the BRM pointers. I'm looking to grind up from similar levels (my graph doesn't look quite the same as yours though) so a cash here would've done absolute wonders to the roll, particularly as I satellited in for £2.60.
johnyp8603 Small blind 50.00 50.00 10692.50 Villain 3 Big blind 100.00 150.00 5985.00 Your hole cards Q Q JackoG9 Raise 300.00 450.00 9157.50 Villain 1 Call 300.00 750.00 5862.50 luckylinda Fold Villain 2 Raise 1100.00 1850.00 5426.00 johnyp8603 Fold Villain 3 Call 1000.00 2850.00 4985.00 JackoG9 All-in 9157.50 12007.50 0.00 Villain 1 Fold Villain 2 Fold Villain 3 All-in 4985.00 16992.50 0.00 JackoG9 Unmatched bet 3372.50 13620.00 3372.50 Villain 3 Show 10 10 JackoG9 Show Q Q Flop 6 J 2 Turn 10 River 8 Villain 3 Win Three 10s 13620.00 13620.00
Horrible spot but if you think btn is squeezing are we not better off getting value by flatting oop – 4 bet will fold out btn’s range
Problem is the other two players init, don’t hate the shove but hey…you got a call from 10’s, so your shove just smells of AK
UL though
On this, I'm often confused wonder where you draw the line between keeping in hands that you're likely beating and betting to shut the hand down / narrow the field when it's multi-way. E.g. If I've got AA here, do I flat?
In Response to Re: Awkward pre flop spot with QQ in Primo : This is it - by flatting, I'm taking QQ three, possibly four, ways which is going to leave me in an even tougher spot post flop. On this, I'm often confused wonder where you draw the line between keeping in hands that you're likely beating and betting to shut the hand down / narrow the field when it's multi-way. E.g. If I've got AA here, do I flat?
Posted by JackoG9
If btn is 3 betting/opening a lot and you then have a flat behind – I think you played it fine and picking up a 28bb pot can never be bad if all fold –
w/AA any 4 bet commits oppo so probably shove
Hu you can flat, being multi way I think you gotta 4 bet
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