Could I have escaped here

ballboy

I have been critiquing a few people on here this week, if that is the right word and spelling.

I have decided to post a hand up I had this week to see what people think and maybe give feed back on how I should have done better. They also get their chance to get their own back haha

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
jimbob1235	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£19.71
badtoad	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£18.60
	Your hole cards	K K
jimmaw	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£9.55
ballboy	Raise		£0.40	£0.65	£7.50
jimbob1235	Fold
badtoad	Call		£0.30	£0.95	£18.30
jimmaw	Call		£0.30	£1.25	£9.25
Flop
		Q J 5
badtoad	Check
jimmaw	Bet		£1.25	£2.50	£8.00
ballboy	Raise		£3.13	£5.63	£4.37
badtoad	Fold
jimmaw	Call		£1.88	£7.51	£6.12
Turn
		J
jimmaw	Check
ballboy	All-in		£4.37	£11.88	£0.00
jimmaw	Call		£4.37	£16.25	£1.75
jimmaw	Show	J K
ballboy	Show	K K
River
		9
jimmaw	Win	Three Jacks	£15.03		£16.78

Not sure if it has come out properly so I will walk you all through what happens.

The UTG player limps and I raise 4x with KK in second position. Everyone folds upto the big blind who calls and the limper makes it up and so we see a flop.

The board comes QJ5 (can't remember the suits here from looking at the copy of the hand, but it isn't important here. The big blind checks and the limper UTG bets the full pot which is £1.25. This appears a dream for me. I am pretty sure I have the best hand at this point. I thought at this point there is a good chance he has a Queen or a Jack but possibly more likely the latter. He knows I am probs c-betting so he should check most Queens here. My first thought is if he is on a draw or there is a danger he could make two pair on the turn I have to raise right here right now. I make it £3.13. Almost £2 more, Doing this should make him have to have a really strong hand to continue here. Any weird hand like 9-10 or K-10 has to fold or should mathematically fold (particularly with the former when unbeknown to them, I would have 1/4 of their outs). I thought I might get a lot of the queens to fold except QJ and AQ when he is probably going to 4bet shove over me. Lastly I thought hands like KJ J-10 would also leave here. With the strength I am showing, he would only beat a bluff and he should give me credit for something which is beating him. He calls pretty quickly (if you look into the speed they take to call, which is NOT reliable to rely on IMO). The river comes another Jack. I have little over 4 quid left and I have managed to get the pot upto 7.50 at this point. I hated this turn card and the result is quite predictable from here. My initial thoughts based on the action on the flop were this has changed the leader. I couldn't quantify how many times in 10 they would have a Jack here. With the big reraise on the flop I would think a lot of these second hands would fold. I shoved it all in here. He checks to me and I chuck it in, pretty much knowing that I was never going to free showdown this hand, but there was some chance he could bluff the river with something with a Queen in. He calls and turns over KJ and wins a big pot.

What are peoples thoughts. Could I have just checked and then fold the river?

BorinLoner

Nah, come on. You know you played it fine. On the turn you have only £4.27 back and the pot's £7.51. You can't check then fold the river. He'll have a Queen or a draw too often.

Maybe you could have raised more on the flop, because it is a bit of a scary board for KK, but I understand your dilemma. Bet any more and you might as well shove because of the amount you have back, but a shove here scares off all the Jacks. Maybe that's the way to go and hope for a call from a Queen. I don't think you did too much wrong though.

SJspanky1

As Borin says its pretty standard.

If stacks are deeper then you can attempt to get to a cheaper conclusion but as stacks stood you did nowt wrong. Very unlucky though.

grantorino

Pre good

Flop I dont mind flatting when he leads full pot. Only likely draw is T9/KT which you have 2 blockers against both, you are way ahead of Kx and Qx and are ip. Raising fine too, I prob make it slightly bigger but w/e. Usually I like raising . If you do raise you dont want KT etc to fold

Turn is a clear shove imo. Anyone who calls flop raise multiway with Jx  will stack off with tonnes of worse hand than KK on turn

NColley

Going to pick this point out of your essay.

'My first thought is if he is on a draw or there is a danger he could make two pair on the turn I have to raise right here right now. I make it £3.13. Almost £2 more, Doing this should make him have to have a really strong hand to continue here.'

The bolded point in particular, this is a really bad reason for raising donk bets. You have an overpair and he leads into you and you want him to fold all but his strong hands.
Insane.

ballboy

In Response to Re: Could I have escaped here:

Going to pick this point out of your essay. 'My first thought is if he is on a draw or there is a danger he could make two pair on the turn I have to raise right here right now. I make it £3.13. Almost £2 more, Doing this should make him have to have a really strong hand to continue here .' The bolded point in particular, this is a really bad reason for raising donk bets. You have an overpair and he leads into you and you want him to fold all but his strong hands. Insane.
Posted by NColley

when you put it like that, it is kind of a bad point by me there. It would be right if for example I called a raise with something like 8-9 of clubs and the board comes 6-7-2 (2 clubs) and I check to the raiser, who cbets and then i reraise because of the large equity in the hand. That semi bluff could potentially make a lot of better hands fold and if they do call they must have a really strong hand to continue. You get the picture - in the example I don't have a hand, I have 9 high and he could have AK which is way in front of me, but with a lot of strength I can make him fold his hand. However in this hand I have a vulnerable hand and I am like a man on a little island surrounded by sharks cautiously looking to work out where I am going to get attacked from

Its weird this hand because I had a read on the flop, but I was put off by the fact he bet the full pot and most donk bets never bet this much from what I have seen. He then calls a 3x raise, which makes me think he can't have anything but top pair or two pair/ a set here. I deduced that he couldn't have second pair, because of my aggression suggesting I had AQ minimum and possibly an over pair. I was really hoping he had KQ or AQ at this point and so I thought I have to get the money in here whilst I am fairly confident I am in front. If a weird turn card comes that gives him 2 pair I might not be able to get away from the hand, so I reraised here thinking to just call could allow a disaster card that changes the leader. If he has a weird draw like 9-10 and an 8 comes, I am probably missing this and losing the hand and my stack. If I can narrow him down to just a Queen then his kicker might come and give him the lead, but I might be able to escape the hand if say an Ace comes or another Queen or a 10. Basically the reraise I hope kills all the weird hands he could have that could ruin me on the turn like the draws, the second pairs with a kicker they could hit to make two pair. The hands I want to call are those with just a Queen in and I should hopefully have a good idea if they then have me beat.Unfortunately as it turns out on the turn I get 2 outtered by a hand that I thought would have folded and lost the hand. Hard to let it go on the turn and the shove was conveniently like 5/8s of the pot so it almost seemed fitting it was going in

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