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£5 DYM, call or fold?

Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
edited February 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Two other stacks are massive and have position so would it be better to call here with above average hand than try shoving ATC into a big stack ?



rsvrcool01Small blind 75.0075.00830.00
Dudeskin8Big blind 150.00225.001190.00
 Your hole cards
  • K
  • 6
   
I_WillFold    
d23bFold    
rsvrcool01All-in 830.001055.000.00
Dudeskin8
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Comments

  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited February 2012
    You gotta know if oppo is capable of shoving ATC here, if the answer is yes then a call is ok but it's a very thin spot

    Your not in that bad shape if you fold and you will be even with other ss

    wait it out a little, blinds coming round again - what time is left on clock
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited February 2012
    Im folding, K10 + or even QJ 
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited February 2012
    Think about 2 mins but not 100% sure.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    Think about 2 mins but not 100% sure.
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    just fold, find a better spot

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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    Im folding, K10 + or even QJ 
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    I think I get where you're coming from as some people are so bad they'll only shove with this range or even tighter lol but the main problem I have is I'm stealing from big stacks who'll call lighter. 

    I'm just wondering whether this could be the best spot I get ?
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold? : I think I get where you're coming from as some people are so bad they'll only shove with this range or even tighter lol but the main problem I have is I'm stealing from big stacks who'll call lighter.  I'm just wondering whether this could be the best spot I get ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Even so would rarther shove ATC then call off readless w/K6o

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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold? : Even so would rarther shove ATC then call off readless w/K6o
    Posted by rancid
    This, you can call wider but k6 i wouldnt at least cards that work together IMO
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  • cgoldiecgoldie Member Posts: 234
    edited February 2012
    You shouldn't be considering any calls here without an absolute premium let alone k6o. Your edge against any 2 isn't huge, even against 72o your only 64%.

    You should be focusing on stealing the bigger stacks blinds just enough to maintain your current stack size as they won't be calling 100%. Then it just comes down to whether you get called first or he gets called/calls and someone is forced to flip. The blinds are still only 10% of your stack so your fine for maintaining until they get to 300 with your current stack size.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited February 2012
    If oppo is shoving ATC then we should call

    but if oppo is only shoving <50% of whole range then it's a fold
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  • jackdajackda Member Posts: 501
    edited February 2012
    Very marginal,but I think I call.You have worst position on table with the big stacks after you and as you say they will call you a lot lighter and even if you double up off 1 of them you are still not guaranteed a cash,but obv if you call and win you are.(unless villain been folding sb a lot obv)
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    You shouldn't be considering any calls here without an absolute premium let alone k6o. Your edge against any 2 isn't huge, even against 72o your only 64%. You should be focusing on stealing the bigger stacks blinds just enough to maintain your current stack size as they won't be calling 100%. Then it just comes down to whether you get called first or he gets called/calls and someone is forced to flip. The blinds are still only 10% of your stack so your fine for maintaining until they get to 300 with your current stack size.
    Posted by cgoldie
    I'll take getting it in as 64% favourite EVERY time if that's what it is. 

    You say concentrate on stealing bigger stacks blinds but this isn't super easy when ~1000 is chicken feed to them.

    Also small stack has just over 5bbs so if I was him I'd be happily shoving ATC knowing I'm almost micro stacked, but maybe that's MY thinking and other players don't undertand things like the gap-concept.
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  • cgoldiecgoldie Member Posts: 234
    edited February 2012
    64% is just against 72o. Against a full range of any 2 cards it's around 52% which is a very low edge especially considering we need to cash 55% to break even. The bigger stacks won't call any 2 so the steal is a better spot and if your unlucky enough to get called your running the flip you just got out of the way of. The best result from this play of course would be if the big stacks then push the smaller stack and he calls giving you risk free shot at cashing.
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited February 2012
    i may be wrong but i think there is a bit in john connors dym blog that mentions similar spots to these where 2 are well clear and it's a case of "you or him".......i think he mentions widening your calling range significantly in this spot.........i could be totally wrong!

    personally i'm calling here.....i think you are ahead often enough to call in this spot....but i'm awful at dyms so take it with a pinch of salt
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    i may be wrong but i think there is a bit in john connors dym blog that mentions similar spots to these where 2 are well clear and it's a case of "you or him".......i think he mentions widening your calling range significantly in this spot.........i could be totally wrong! personally i'm calling here.....i think you are ahead often enough to call in this spot....but i'm awful at dyms so take it with a pinch of salt
    Posted by waller02
    Yeah that was something I remember reading too and this spot seems quite akin to that but maybe I'm wrong, would be beneficial to have a SHANXTA etc reply....
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: £5 DYM, call or fold? : Yeah that was something I remember reading too and this spot seems quite akin to that but maybe I'm wrong, would be beneficial to have a SHANXTA etc reply....
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    it got me thinking so i have just re read his blog.

    he does mention calling with any 2 cards but in the example he gave he mentioned having a 3-4bb stack.....so who knows????

    yeah would like to see a dym specialists thoughts on this hand too because calling can't be too bad here can it???
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited February 2012
    I don't get the whole obsession in rather pushing/calling in spots like this.

    Let's say for arguments sake you are in a DYM on the bubble vs 3 other regs. You know that they are shoving a very wide range with 6bb because they are in peril and need to win chips badly. So in turn surely we should be widening our calling range since they are shoving so much lighter. Sometimes if you are the 2nd lowest it should make sense for you to call shorties shoves wider since you are the next in trouble if shorty doubles through, then again if shorty beats us we are almost certain to lose.
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  • cgoldiecgoldie Member Posts: 234
    edited February 2012
    Yeah thats in jc's blog but for me this situation is out of that area with the blind sizes. If it was 200/400 or 150/300 you'd have to be calling because folding would alter the stack sizes to dramatically.

    Your current equity is around £6.1 and the calls only going to give you £4.9 52% of the time against any 2 cards (he could have a stronger range). 

    Folding is only going to lower you to £5.4 100%. Your much better off folding and letting a big stack flip with him. If he doubles your equity lowers to around £4.3 or goes up to £10 if he loses on a 50/50. It's a much more profitable situation.
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