Cash Game

anna1

hello,

Do you think playing cash games at the lower stakes such as 2p/4p is a waste of time and not as profitable as say 10p/20p as people seem to not know what they are doing and just call with anything pre-flop and there for ends up with too many people in the pot and they end up getting lucky etc. 

is it better to start out on the slightly higher blinds as the level of poker is much better or does it make no difference?

thanks

Machka

Hi, moved this into General Poker Chat as you're more likely to get some advice in there.

Generally people say beat the lower levels before moving up.  You just have to adjust your game for all those limp-callers.

Hopefully someone else will post more useful advice too.

oynutter

Hi Anna, agreeing with Machka, it probably is best to beat the lower levels first, it will teach you a lot about how to adjust your game according to the types of players at the table.  If you prefer to play slightly less bingo type poker, just look for 2/4 tables with a modest average pot, the loony types will have an average pot well over a pound, whereas a game with mostly reasonable players will have an average pot betwwen 35p and a pound----

personally (when I have the bankroll) I prefer to play a tightish game against loonies, because it makes good profit, but you do have to make lots of calls preflop, just so they think you're one of them-- gl-- floppa whoppa!!

Dudeskin8

If people don't know what they're doing and are calling with anything preflop this is good for us as most times they miss they're draws.

If you've never played cash before it's defo worth having a few sessions at NL4 if just to get your barings especially if coming from MTT where it's mostly short stacked play.

Lambert180

Yeah Anna, the way to combat all them limpers at 4nl is to really tighten up the hands you play, which I gather you're good at.

Stick to playing pocket pairs, AK, AQ, AJ, and KQ, raise big when you play them, at 2p/4p, make it 20p when you raise, and add an extra 4p for everyone that limps before you. With QQ/KK/AA just make it like 32-40p.

If you hit top pair, top kicker, bet at least 3/4 pot.

Never slowplay any hand, if you've got it, bet it

If you have things like AK and don't hit, you can c-bet once but if you get called and don't hit on the turn, just give up

wenelinho

yeah i play at 2/4 p it can be a drag sometimes but its very beatable.  Are you multi tabling? because this is a must at this level.

also in answer to your question playing a 5-10 and 10-20 is always going to be more profitable but if you cant beat the low limits your just going to loose. people call with all kindsa rubbish at every level its your job to make notes and value bet the life out of the good hands!!!! VALUE BET lol.

how much are you raising pre flop i like to over bet pre maybe 20/24p depending what mood im in also like to mix it up with abit of limping, limp calling just to vary my game and range.

Anyway stick at it multi table, write notes and value bet GL

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

yeah i play at 2/4 p it can be a drag sometimes but its very beatable.  Are you multi tabling? because this is a must at this level. also in answer to your question playing a 5-10 and 10-20 is always going to be more profitable but if you cant beat the low limits your just going to loose. people call with all kindsa rubbish at every level its your job to make notes and value bet the life out of the good hands!!!! VALUE BET lol. how much are you raising pre flop i like to over bet pre maybe 20/24p depending what mood im in also like to mix it up with abit of limping, limp calling just to vary my game and range. Anyway stick at it multi table, write notes and value bet GL
Posted by wenelinho

The only problem with 'mixing up your play' is that 90% of the people at 2p/4p dont pay a blind bit of notice to what you do, so there's often no benefit to it.

wenelinho

i completely agree but its like with anything play it right from the lowest level play it right at the highest level. i know they dont notice but it allows me to get in cheap with more speculative hands. 

Not all the players at this level are bad and im sure the better ones notice.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

i completely agree but its like with anything play it right from the lowest level play it right at the highest level. i know they dont notice but it allows me to get in cheap with more speculative hands.  Not all the players at this level are bad and im sure the better ones notice.
Posted by wenelinho

With good table selection you shouldn't have to play the good ones.

Sky_Claire

We will also be talking about this on Master Cash tonight at 11pm on channel 865, with Richard Orford, Stuart Rutter and Neil 'Jakally' Giblin

Thanks

AcidMan27

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

i completely agree but its like with anything play it right from the lowest level play it right at the highest level. i know they dont notice but it allows me to get in cheap with more speculative hands.  Not all the players at this level are bad and im sure the better ones notice.
Posted by wenelinho

I wouldn't say limp calling (if open limping) is a good way to mix up your game.

Donut64

 A lot of players at 2p/4p have a set way of playing ie some will push in with any Ace, some will raise big when they miss and small when they hit it can be a good way of learning reads at a very basic level if you play just the one table.

 Ok so you will not win a fortune and sometimes you will have days were no matter what you do you will be out drawn or the guy that raises with all-in with any A will have another A to go with it, but that is inevitable!

 Make notes on the players that stick to a routine and look for them.

 It doesnt matter what level you play at there will allways be bad players that get lucky, but at least at the lower levels there are more players that you can read and hopefully take advantage off.

 IMO no game is a waste of time if you are gaining experience and having fun at the same time. Dont let others making "bad" plays cloud your judgement try to take advantage off it!

 

walesboy

definately don't miss the lower levels.
they help you learn the basics/ABC poker more cheaply.
yes you get the "bad beats" and it can be frustrating but your buyin is £4 rather than £10/£20.
as a result the nl4 tables should be well within your bankroll (hopefully) so that any bad day does not affect your play too much.

multi-tabling is definately the way to go as well as it stops you to some extent playing those marginal hands out of position that get you into so much trouble -  well sometimes .
it also counters the boredom if you go card dead on one table. Don't go straight into 4/5 tables - build up from 2 once you get used to it.

notes on players are also very important as you go on. you can start specific with hands seen and then get more general as you play them more. they will help you to know whether you should fold or shove  based on previous play.

use the clinic for hands you've played or just look at others to gain insight as well.

good luck 

Sky_DanB

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

We will also be talking about this on Master Cash tonight at 11pm on channel 865, with Richard Orford, Stuart Rutter and Neil 'Jakally' Giblin Thanks
Posted by Sky_Claire

This will debate will now feature in Ask the Expert live tonight from @ 8pm!!!! With the experts being Stuart Rutter and Neil Giblin aka Jakally.... 

cgoldie

If you can't beat the bad players that limp junk and play badly how do you expect playing better players will be more profitable for you?

If they are all limping and calling, raise preflop with your strong hands and then bet top pair or better. They will obviously get lucky sometimes and hit 2 pair or better but so will you so your guarenteed to make money off fish if your range is stronger.

The only difference between 2/4p and higher levels is there are less fish and more stronger players. I would rather be playing a 2/4p fish who's holding 6/4s clueless and check calling any board than a competent LAG at 25/50p+ who knows exactly how to play it against you in position, bust your TPTK/Overpairs or make you fold when they don't have a holding.

Machka

In Response to Cash Game:

hello, Do you think playing cash games at the lower stakes such as 2p/4p is a waste of time and not as profitable as say 10p/20p as people seem to not know what they are doing and just call with anything pre-flop and there for ends up with too many people in the pot and they end up getting lucky etc.  is it better to start out on the slightly higher blinds as the level of poker is much better or does it make no difference? thanks
Posted by anna1

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

We will also be talking about this on Master Cash tonight at 11pm on channel 865, with Richard Orford, Stuart Rutter and Neil 'Jakally' Giblin Thanks
Posted by Sky_Claire

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

In Response to Re: Cash Game : This will debate will now feature in Ask the Expert live tonight from @ 8pm!!!! With the experts being Stuart Rutter and Neil Giblin aka Jakally....  
Posted by Sky_DanB

I hope Miss 1 is watching, all this attention!

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

in my opinion and its only an opinion no disrespect on people that play 2p/4p but i find it better on 10 nl because people respect when you raise preflop and can get bluffs through i find on 4 nl and i have a premium and say u get 4 limpers i can have pocket kings i raise to 40p 10 x the original limper u still get 4 callers which u never want with kings in a multiway pot so whatever the flop is your never comftable winning this unless a king comes down me personally if i done this raise on 10 nl every 1 would fold or maybe get 1 caller which i want with kings playing heads up not playing multiway and its so hard to bluff on 4 nl because most people are playing for fun i think a big part of poker is bluffing but a bluff never seems to get through on 4 nl so myself i always play 10 nl anyway good luck whatever you do from steve aka idonkcallu
Posted by IDONKCALLU

I've played alot of 4NL and don't think I've ever made it 10x pre and got 4 callers. And if you make it 10x pre at 10NL and get flatted, then you're playing someone just as bad as the people at 4nl.

wenelinho

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

In Response to Re: Cash Game : I wouldn't say limp calling (if open limping) is a good way to mix up your game.
Posted by AcidMan27

im not talking about calling massive bet pre but if i limp with 55, somebody re-raise to 12p and 3 people come along am i not getting 4-1 on my extra 8p to come along and set mine here? plus if i do hit big chance of taking somebody's entire stack which is what i suppose we are looking for at this level.

Its not something I do alot of but a nice limp every now and again with 8 9 suited etc always fun. flop comes i mis easy fold

ryderroo

beat each limit over time however dip your toes in with the guys 1/2 limits up now and again if your bankroll allows, however set a very strict limit on potential losses ie never play with money you cant afford to lose, above all watch and learn at each progressive leap, gl matey hope my waffle makes sense

AcidMan27

In Response to Re: Cash Game:

In Response to Re: Cash Game : im not talking about calling massive bet pre but if i limp with 55, somebody re-raise to 12p and 3 people come along am i not getting 4-1 on my extra 8p to come along and set mine here? plus if i do hit big chance of taking somebody's entire stack which is what i suppose we are looking for at this level. Its not something I do alot of but a nice limp every now and again with 8 9 suited etc always fun. flop comes i mis easy fold
Posted by wenelinho

You stated about mixing up your play and getting into good habits.

Once you move up the levels and you decide to open limp you will get pounced upon.

To balance your range (which you really don't need to do until you hit the higher levels) you should still be coming in with a raise if you're first in the pot with what ever cards you're playing.

So by your logic if you're balancing your range by open limping sometimes you're then limping with premium pocket pairs too ?