In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : If we range ep raise as narrow then if we hit, we have more chance of getting paid If maniac raises ep, then it becomes an ez fold I know where I am when I call pre and know I am behind To be frank, I feel very comfortable playing oop so if flop comes Ace high I feel I can play it ok Posted by rancid
Yeah IF you hit which isn't that often, surely you can understand that fact, and even when you do hit you end up levelling yourself into folding or considering it.
You know you're behind and yet still call, that logic doesn't make sense to me :S, if it was a small pair than fair play you could be behind but if hit set you know where you are.
On the Ace high flop it would be interesting to see how you play it and also how profitable you are .
In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : Yeah IF you hit which isn't that often, surely you can understand that fact, and even when you do hit you end up levelling yourself into folding or considering it. You know you're behind and yet still call, that logic doesn't make sense to me :S, if it was a small pair than fair play you could be behind but if hit set you know where you are. On the Ace high flop it would be interesting to see how you play it and also how profitable you are . Posted by Dudeskin8
If you play to hit a hand then your can't fold can you The whole reason we play hands with implied odds is because we know we are behind and oppo has a hand they will stack with
Can we only win at poker by being the right side of super standard coolers :S
In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : If you play to hit a hand then your can't fold can you The whole reason we play hands with implied odds is because we know we are behind and oppo has a hand they will stack with Can we only win at poker by being the right side of super standard coolers :S Posted by rancid
I have no problem with getting it in here, doing anything but defies all logic for calling pre, if he has better say well done and move on.
We win by trying to make the game as easy as possible, putting other players under pressure etc, calling OOP with marginal holdings doesn't achieve that.
How often do you see TommyD doing it? I'd wager never.
In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : I have no problem with getting it in here, doing anything but defies all logic for calling pre, if he has better say well done and move on. We win by trying to make the game as easy as possible, putting other players under pressure etc, calling OOP with marginal holdings doesn't achieve that. How often do you see TommyD doing it? I'd wager never. Posted by Dudeskin8
agree to disagree Dude ) again!
Gotta say though, you can be passive sometimes - does have benefits
pre is marginal imo, I would prob call if limper likely to come along. Not a big fan of 3betting it here readless oop, cant see folding pre being bad either
flop good.
bet turn. I hate the check against an unknown with bad betsizing on what is basically a blank
As played shove river. You cant call pre for implied odds, flop two pair, check turn and river to induce then fold when you actually do induce
Also as an aside A9s is significantly better than A9o pre imo due to extra equity we have on some flops
pre is marginal imo, I would prob call if limper likely to come along. Not a big fan of 3betting it here readless oop, cant see folding pre being bad either flop good. bet turn. I hate the check against an unknown with bad betsizing on what is basically a blank As played shove river. You cant call pre for implied odds, flop two pair, check turn and river to induce then fold when you actually do induce Also as an aside A9s is significantly better than A9o pre imo due to extra equity we have on some flops Posted by grantorino
Why do we shove river, surely lets AQ/AJ fold Surely induce to let AQ/AJ over value their hand Only better calls our shove, or do we just lead turn and river hoping worse comes along - surely this only works versus stations Given the fact oppo is random to me, how can I be sure oppo is bad
But if oppo does not hit turn & we check then oppo checks behind and we lose value on turn but we can still check turn and v/b river as worse will call but maybe not call two streets
or are we just fire fire fire -puure valoooooooooo because all oppo are bad )
In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : Why do we shove river, surely lets AQ/AJ fold Surely induce to let AQ/AJ over value their hand Only better calls our shove, or do we just lead turn and river hoping worse comes along - surely this only works versus stations Given the fact oppo is random to me, how can I be sure oppo is bad But if oppo does not hit turn & we check then oppo checks behind and we lose value on turn but we can still check turn and v/b river as worse will call but maybe not call two streets or are we just fire fire fire -puure valoooooooooo because all oppo are bad ) Posted by rancid
I meant shove over river bet, although I doubt AQ folds to a lead ever, but yeah as played crai.
If you checked to induce why are you asking whether to call or fold
You cant be sure oppo is bad, but his betsizing is too small and its 10NL
Nearly every hand that checks behind turn and calls river will call turn bet and draws that check behind fold to river bet
Against an unknown yeah I would just keep firing for value cos people (good or bad) can call down with worse esp when draw misses
Betting the turn yourself makes whole hand easier as then you can shove river when he calls, by check call turn you have to do same on river.
But like GT said you induce river bet then want to fold, don't make sense.
You say 'hoping worse comes along' but most players aren't super tight (heck he called with KK here after you basically held your hand face up) and if they have AQ/AJ/A10 will call flop c/r (they have TP ffs lol) then call turn as well. By checking turn you miss value from those hands and make it hard to get stacks in on river with pot being smaller.
In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : I meant shove over river bet, although I doubt AQ folds to a lead ever, but yeah as played crai. If you checked to induce why are you asking whether to call or fold You cant be sure oppo is bad, but his betsizing is too small and its 10NL Nearly every hand that checks behind turn and calls river will call turn bet and draws that check behind fold to river bet Against an unknown yeah I would just keep firing for value cos people (good or bad) can call down with worse esp when draw misses Posted by grantorino
Just debating if my induce line is worthwhile, or if I should have bet turn and shoved river Thought the answer would have come out in the wash if I posted and asked call or fold
Even though I am never folding, the turn still made me feel like folding to the strong river bet, but I just can't fold because of my line -
if turn is brick then I lead, thought leading K turn would look very strong and worse will fold K for me is action killer or kills my hand
I hear ya though, lead />check to avoid the check behind from worse
Betting the turn yourself makes whole hand easier as then you can shove river when he calls, by check call turn you have to do same on river. But like GT said you induce river bet then want to fold, don't make sense. You say 'hoping worse comes along' but most players aren't super tight (heck he called with KK here after you basically held your hand face up) and if they have AQ/AJ/A10 will call flop c/r (they have TP ffs lol) then call turn as well. By checking turn you miss value from those hands and make it hard to get stacks in on river with pot being smaller. Posted by Dudeskin8
Dude - call or fold - but I am never folding - but did think about it But like you say, the way I played it - I can't fold
In Response to Re: NL10 - call or fold : Dude - call or fold - but I am never folding - but did think about it But like you say, the way I played it - I can't fold Posted by rancid
I'd say KK would be a VERY small portion of range, remember you've check raised on an ace high flop so what doesn KK now beat, just FD bluff really all else has him drawing to 2 outs possibly 1 if he has two black kings and has you on FD.
AK is more likely but again you have 2 peaarzzzzz so can't fold espesh as that's what you were calling for pre lol :S
I'd say KK would be a VERY small portion of range, remember you've check raised on an ace high flop so what doesn KK now beat, just FD bluff really all else has him drawing to 2 outs possibly 1 if he has two black kings and has you on FD. AK is more likely but again you have 2 peaarzzzzz so can't fold espesh as that's what you were calling for pre lol :S Overall just a cooler ) Posted by Dudeskin8
+1 )
never folding but don't you agree oppo flatting flop really narrows oppo range to just a few hands So even though I am not folding, it's a close one
Well when you represent that much strength on flop his range has to narrow but part of that range AQ/AJ/A10 maybe A8 if he's proper loosey goosey you're still well ahead of.
IMO only really AK to be worried about and maybe AA but if he has those hands just sigh and click reload
Comments
The whole reason we play hands with implied odds is because we know we are behind and oppo has a hand they will stack with
Can we only win at poker by being the right side of super standard coolers :S
agree to disagree Dude ) again!
Gotta say though, you can be passive sometimes - does have benefits
Rather see a 3bet pre then a call but w/e.
As played, raise bigger on flop, bet turn - really no call for c/r flop and then checking turn since people will just check behind alot.
I'm never folding when I hit 2 pair with A9 unless the board counterfeits my 9, otherwise your only playing it to hit the flush and thats just silly.
flop good.
bet turn. I hate the check against an unknown with bad betsizing on what is basically a blank
As played shove river. You cant call pre for implied odds, flop two pair, check turn and river to induce then fold when you actually do induce
Also as an aside A9s is significantly better than A9o pre imo due to extra equity we have on some flops
Surely induce to let AQ/AJ over value their hand
Only better calls our shove, or do we just lead turn and river hoping worse comes along - surely this only works versus stations
Given the fact oppo is random to me, how can I be sure oppo is bad
But if oppo does not hit turn & we check then oppo checks behind and we lose value on turn but we can still check turn and v/b river as worse will call but maybe not call two streets
or are we just fire fire fire -puure valoooooooooo because all oppo are bad )
If you checked to induce why are you asking whether to call or fold
You cant be sure oppo is bad, but his betsizing is too small and its 10NL
Nearly every hand that checks behind turn and calls river will call turn bet and draws that check behind fold to river bet
Against an unknown yeah I would just keep firing for value cos people (good or bad) can call down with worse esp when draw misses
Thought the answer would have come out in the wash if I posted and asked call or fold
Even though I am never folding, the turn still made me feel like folding to the strong river bet, but I just can't fold because of my line -
if turn is brick then I lead, thought leading K turn would look very strong and worse will fold
K for me is action killer or kills my hand
I hear ya though, lead />check to avoid the check behind from worse
But like you say, the way I played it - I can't fold
BUT - can we b/f turn :S
My questions are in op Dude, got a bit side tracked have we )
"no reads, opnions from pre plz
I check turn for value from Ax, rep a c/r flop w/FD by weakly checking turn
Are my lines really bad or ?
But I am also wary of AK/KK
Surely I have to call it off"
But what does oppo flat flop with - AQ/AJ/AK/KK - draws
You think I am making it up after seeing the result - tut tut Dude
+1 )
never folding but don't you agree oppo flatting flop really narrows oppo range to just a few hands
So even though I am not folding, it's a close one