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being put to decisions at NL50

huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
edited March 2012 in The Poker Clinic

Villain multi tables and seems to be half decent.  he is fairly aggressive and will see me as aggro especially when i have position.  he has been sat for about 2 orbits but will still know that the btn in this hand is the value at the table.  the guy on the btn is shocking and has been limp calling all over the place and min raises if he has AA or KK.  as soon as the btn checks the flop both me and villain know he has absolutely nothing.

obviously i love the river with the way the hand has been played but when villain shoves the river what do we do?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
villain Small blind  £0.25 £0.25 £49.75
huuuuume Big blind  £0.50 £0.75 £95.10
 Your hole cards
  • K
  • 5
   
mycardude Fold     
jackl Fold     
btnRaise  £1.00 £1.75 £40.66
villain Call  £0.75 £2.50 £49.00
huuuuume Call  £0.50 £3.00 £94.60
Flop
  
  • 7
  • 10
  • 6
   
villain Check     
huuuuume Check     
btnCheck     
Turn
  
  • 2
   
villain Bet  £2.00 £5.00 £47.00
huuuuume Raise  £6.50 £11.50 £88.10
btnFold     
villain Call  £4.50 £16.00 £42.50
River
  
  • 7
   
villain Check     
huuuuume Bet  £10.50 £26.50 £77.60
villain All-in  £42.50 £69.00 £0.00
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Comments

  • richtearichtea Member Posts: 143
    edited March 2012
    I hate these spots, if I knew who the oppo was I'd maybe have a slightly better idea.

    Pre-flop action doesn't really give any clues, could have a small pair, could have suited ace (but if your pretty hilarious read about the button player is correct then obv suited ace is less likely).

    I don't know, it's one to put through stove after you've called...
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    If he's been limp calling a lot, then his min raise pre-flop surely has to represent some kind of strength. I don't think a call is terrible, I don't think a fold is terrible either. I personally favour a fold against a fish when I'm unsure where I am in the hand, as I'll get better spots to take his money off him later on.

    I know it's only another 50p to call, but you should fold this hand pre-flop IMO. With K5s, OOP, you're never going to hit anything that you'll be completely happy getting your 100bb effective stack in with, unless you flop quads...
  • richtearichtea Member Posts: 143
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    If he's been limp calling a lot, then his min raise pre-flop surely has to represent some kind of strength. I don't think a call is terrible, I don't think a fold is terrible either. I personally favour a fold against a fish when I'm unsure where I am in the hand, as I'll get better spots to take his money off him later on. I know it's only another 50p to call, but you should fold this hand pre-flop IMO. With K5s, OOP, you're never going to hit anything that you'll be completely happy getting your 100bb effective stack in with, unless you flop quads...
    Posted by EvilPingu
    This is actually a very good point, my first reply was based solely on your river decision (which I think is the question you were asking in the first place anyway)...

    Re-reading this just makes your read/pf decision even funnier. If you think he min-raises with AA or KK wtf are you calling with K5 for?
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    If you think he min-raises with AA or KK wtf are you calling with K5 for?
    Posted by richtea
    And if you think he's mostly got AA/KK here, doesn't this just become the snappiest snap call in the whole of snapsville when he shoves river?
  • richtearichtea Member Posts: 143
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : And if you think he's mostly got AA/KK here, doesn't this just become the snappiest snap call in the whole of snapsville when he shoves river?
    Posted by EvilPingu
    BTN has already folded, I'm talking about the pf decision
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : BTN has already folded, I'm talking about the pf decision
    Posted by richtea
    Misread the post-flop action, thought the button was the guy who re-raised all in on the river for some reason :o
  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2012
    Weird hand.  First look it looked like a fold as we are only beating a scb on river.

    But then through the streets it looks kind of different.  Think river could be a 7 or straight, perhaps even weaker flush.  Really hard to say.

    Would just have to come down to reads/notes for me here.  Readless I fold.  Seems like when clicking call, pots never ours.  Can only call if we know oppo massively overplays marginal hands, otherwise I'm juist going to assume river shove is for value.  If we are wrong in this spot I'm sure we'll soon find out from upcoming hands, then we'll have notes needed, myeh or we can just call and note take :p Prob a fold tho lol,
  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited March 2012
    fold pre, why re-raise turn??(please tell me) c/c (C/fold to shove) or b/f river. 
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited March 2012
    If oppo is min raising pre big hands, then your fine - not got AKdd has oppo so.....

    You have called pre to hit this hand or take it away on turn so.. how can you fold now ?

    if oppo turns house or nut flush then hey ho move on.....

  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    If oppo is min raising pre big hands, then your fine - not got AKdd has oppo so..... You have called pre to hit this hand or take it away on turn so.. how can you fold now ? if oppo turns house or nut flush then hey ho move on.....
    Posted by rancid
    You need to re think you'r mentality on cash games m8!!!! i mean............ if oppo turns house or nut flush hey ho move on??

    Villain is a decent reg(Prob has ~22), ask yourself what does a decent reg on the SB have that he is happy to put all his money in with on the river???? this is a easy fold.
  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    fold pre, why re-raise turn??(please tell me) c/c (C/fold to shove) or b/f river. 
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Why not? gotta do it with draws sometimes
  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Why not? gotta do it with draws sometimes
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    Because the way the hand played out(and v this villain), i doubt villain is stealing pot with air? if we get 3-bet then what? we get raised off the hand with some equity, and inflating the pot with k high

    You give me reasons on why raising is good..... 
  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Because the way the hand played out(and v this villain), i doubt villain is stealing pot with air? if we get 3-bet then what? we get raised off the hand with some equity, and inflating the pot with k high You give me reasons on why raising is good..... 
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Flop checked round, Hume has said that Btn would have bet if he had hit flop, villain could also know this.

    It's said that villain is at the very least competent, can't only be reraising the turn with monsters can we?
  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2012
    "villain will see me as aggro especially when i have position."

    hmmm, I don't see how he could have a house, although he knows you're aggro, you'll surely often want to have a back-up plan eg flush draw (as you did this time) if he had a set or 2 pair by the turn, with 2 flush draws surely he'd try and get the lot in then? Or maybe he knows you're likely to bet ANY river and he likes his chances :S

    Tough spot...

    I can't help but think he's gotta have nut flush
  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Flop checked round, Hume has said that Btn would have bet if he had hit flop, villain could also know this. It's said that villain is at the very least competent, can't only be reraising the turn with monsters can we?
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    Sorry, what are we achieving by raising?
  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Sorry, what are we achieving by raising?
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Would you only ever reraise the turn with the near nuts? If so then you'll be extremely predictable

    Play ABC vs the fish
  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2012
    Were deep enough to raise turn here no problem.  There are alot of benefits of raising turn here IP going to river other than value though, definately making it fine.
  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited March 2012
    turn is closer to a fold than a re-raise

    Its tough spot here because its self-inflicted

    Yes, i am never bluffing here...because its just like giving money away, why bother(very small pot) rarely dead money since Sb has gotten involved.
  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited March 2012
    fold
  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited March 2012
    very very very few decent regs are capable of doing this without the ~nuts

    there are one or two who might get out of line like this.

    if its the regs who know why they are MR BTN then I think it might be a call

    if its the regs who just MR BTN because they are copying and don't know why they are doing it and are just clicking buttons then its a fold..
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