Hand on my mind...

bazbazbaz

Don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this but am curious to see what % of people fold v call and what factors make you come to the decision.  Here's the situation...

Last night I'm playing in the 9pm, £110 entry £5k bounty hunter. Important to know that I have qualified for it via a Frenzie (or may have been a £9.60 semi final) but either way I only paid about £10 to get into it.

9 players left.  Top 8 get paid.

Prizes go something like:

1 - £750 + bounties
2 - £500 + bounties
3 - £350 + bounties
4 - £250 + bounties
5 - £200 + bounties
6 - £175 + bounties
7 - £150 + bounties
8 - £125 + bounties

I have taken a few bounties so whilst I'm on the cash bubble, I've already made about £140.

I am laying in about 3rd or 4th spot and the blinds are at 250/500.

I'm dealt QQ on small blind.

3 folds and then dealer (who is lyonsbob who is obviously a good player) raises to 1,500.

I believe it's a move so I raise back to 3,500.

Big blind folds.

Lyons Bob shoves with 20,000 chips which means I am all in to call.

In the 20 or so seconds I have to make a decision, my thought process goes...

He could have a small or mid pair.  If so I am big favourite.

He could have Ace suited.  Unlikely.

Unlikely he has AA, or KK.  Possible but unlikely.

Could still be a move.  Unlikely.

I think he has AK.  I'm racing but still slight favourite.

Overall, I think I'm almost certainly in front.

If I call and win, puts me in excellent position.  I'll have about a quarter of all the chips in play and in a strong spot to go on and win or place very high the tournament. 

If I call and lose I'm out and don't cash at all but still get the £140 already made in bounties.

Am I in this to win it or cash?

Timer ticks down...

Last seconds I make the call...

He shows AK

Hits the Ace on flop.

For the second time in 3 days I bubble in the same tournament.

But in all honesty, I make that call 100 times out of a 100 in the same situation.  Even (especially) if I can see his AK.

Call or fold guys?

Lambert180

I think it's definitely a call, especially because you've already won more than 10 times your buy-in in heads so I think your only aim now should be 1st place and this is a sure way to put you in a good position for it.

Horrible about all the bubbling though, I've bubbled the SPT Brighton twice now and had multiple really bad beats/coolers near the cash/seats,

bigal36903

got to be a shove , not a riase to put the decision on michael..  it is a good call..  michael would of called you if you had shoved..  there is only one way to not get ur chips in and that wud be a flat call to his first raise..

ul baz..  we all have these tough choices at some stage , it one of them where u wanted 2 7 os and an easy fold on bubble..

Poker_Fail

Gotta be happy getting it in with Qs in this spot, he could just as easily have JJ and maybe even 10s* in this spot

*I have no idea how tight/loose Lyons is

He's a good player though, and knows to bully people at the bubble so I wouldn't be surprised if he turned up with 9s or 8s here sometimes

GaryQQQ

Snap call, don't even need to think about it. Even if it's a cooler and he flips over AA or KK I think your play is 100% correct.

Doooobs

Easy call.  SB or BB you can't ever fold queens here to the button.  People with aces tend to 4 bet rather than shove here, so that makes the shove call even easier.

I don't think it really matters whether you think it is a move or not.  Reraising here is pretty standard.

cgoldie

easy call your ahead of his range.

goodylad21

Depends if you think you have an edge over the table ??

How many BB would you have left if you folded (im guessing 20/25) ??

I must be the only one whos posted so far who could possibly find a fold.

djblacke04

 i folded QQ other day to a shove...

 I personally will fold QQ ......you still have lots of chips left,save them for a different spot...bubble no call, 3 left i call..

DOHHHHHHH

He's never light when he 4bets. Agree with goody. 

He would flat call your 3b with TT, JJ & AQ (as well as a load of other hands that ppl like to see flops with)

Will 4bet everything that beats you & AK.

3b/folding QQ ftw!

You can always flat in the first place against this type of player though, keep it low varience, and it's the best chance you've got of getting it in well ahead by letting him spa z/z out of position with the betting lead.

His cbet will be huge with any hand, on any board, and will give up the turn, he's only ever 2 barrelling for value, soif you're comfortable playing flops it's not a bad option. 

GaryQQQ

Those huge 4-bet shoves are almost never AA, hardly ever KK too. Skilled players with those hands don't want to scare off their customer and will make a small 4-bet to induce a shove and leave enough behind to give the illusion of fold equity. This is nearly always AK, sometimes JJ. Even after considering the last 3 replies I still call 100% of the time here, I don't care about the bubble, I'm playing to win the tournament, not fold my way to a min cash while waiting for AA.

goodylad21

GaryQQQ - So what your sayind is : If you know he has AK, you are more than happy to take a flip for your tournament life & 30BB on the bubble ??

I would never be wanting to take a flip for this many blinds at this stage !!

shaun84

Could never fold my QQ there, especially to a button raise from Michael. I totally agree with Gary, the bubble should have no bearing on your decision. You should be playing for 1st place always and have just been unlucky that he hit the Ace. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham

GaryQQQ

In Response to Re: Hand on my mind...:

GaryQQQ - So what your sayind is : If you know he has AK, you are more than happy to take a flip for your tournament life & 30BB on the bubble ?? I would never be wanting to take a flip for this many blinds at this stage !!
Posted by goodylad21

I put him on AK/JJ, easy call, QQ has 63% equity against that range.

penguin7

Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. Looks easy now to have flatted it preflop, then folded on flop.

Once you have 3betted then it is so much harder to fold to a shove. But as said above, AK was probably the best hand you could hope he showed.

I notice you have listed the cash payouts. In a BH they are shallower, but obviously the top prizes are going to be boosted by the big bounties available on a final table. So you should look at it the same as a freezeout and always play for the win, where the real money is. The fact that you were already showing a good return on your initial buyin is irrelevant.

Which brings us back to the 3bet. What was it going to achieve ? Take the pot down ? Build the pot?

I would be shoving or calling there on the bubble, not wanting to be put to the test.

I would be far happier losing QQ  v AK knowing I had given my opponent the big decision.

Or would have found an easy fold on an Ace high flop if I had only committed 1500 chips.

scotty77

You can't really 3bet fold QQ tbh...even tho you were fairly deep its still a massive hand and when you got the money in you was AHEAD.

In future, think about what you are gonna do if you are then faced with a 4bet.  If its gonna be a fold, then just flat with the queens and play a flop/hit a set/pot control.

Dazler

i think that late on in torny and 3 betting, you may as well just push the lot in. But better to flat call the raise see the flop if no AK shove then. But folding Qs if he shoves after you 3 bet.

scotty77

to those saying oh just shove over the orignal raise.

you are shoving 40bbs here

you are never going to get called by JJ/TT/AK

you are turning your hand into a bluff.  if you are gonna be just shipping in 40bb then you may as well have ATC

by 3betting relatively small like the OP has done, you allow people to 4bet bluff or 4bet jam with hands like AK/AQ/JJ.

honestly just folding QQ is a far far better line to take than the jamming of 40bbs.

penguin7

Yes, but for the reasons you gave in the previous post, you cant be 3bet folding in this spot. And the point you made there about making your mind up about how you are going to react to a shove before you 3bet is very true.

And as you said QQ IS a massive hand, so folding is not a realistic option.

So the best move must be calling and seeing a flop.

If you do 3bet, is 3500 big enough to fold out AJ etc ? Think it may get called with that type of hand, he has the chips to put 2k in to see flop. So you still have the problem when the ace comes.

DOHHHHHHH

You can 3b fold if he calls with worse and only 4bets better.

I'd imagine there's alot worse than QQ in his opening range than better. 

I'd also believe he'll peel alot of his worse hands, and only 4bet better hands.

So why can't we 3b/fold?

I don't mind a flat either, but if his ranges are so clearly defined and we're gonna know where we are post flop all the time (unless he has AA/KK) , don't see a problem with 3b/fold esp with the bubble dynamic.

Prob the worst thing forums have taught me against weaker players is you cant 3b/fold hands with value. Nonsense. 

pryce6

yes let's all live in the sky bubble where 3b folding QQ is considered acceptable.

I cannot wait until antes, then you will all have to widen your range to possibly Jacks zzzz

Fwiw OP played hand perfect.