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Playing kings different in a sat, 200x deep

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited March 2012 in The Poker Clinic
OK early in a satellite. Opinions on this hand. 3b hasnt played a hand yet. The origional raiser has been pretty active and loose.

PokerStars Hand #76810960383: Tournament #525205194, £40+£4 GBP Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/03/07 20:10:05 WET [2012/03/07 15:10:05 ET]
Table '525205194 7' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: cheezees (3970 in chips)
Seat 2: MrBlake1925 (3815 in chips)
Seat 3: gilly78 (2260 in chips)
Seat 4: palantunio (4100 in chips)
Seat 5: *Guv,nor*983 (3870 in chips)
Seat 6: indiesamuel (4000 in chips)
Seat 7: Ultraballs18 (5150 in chips)
Seat 8: Osviken (3845 in chips)
Seat 9: the_donscott (5010 in chips)
MrBlake1925: posts small blind 10
gilly78: posts big blind 20


*** HOLE CARDS ***


Dealt to the_donscott [Kh Kd]


palantunio: folds
*Guv,nor*983: folds
indiesamuel: raises 40 to 60
Ultraballs18: folds
Osviken: raises 40 to 100
the_donscott: raises 260 to 360
cheezees: folds
MrBlake1925: folds
gilly78: folds
indiesamuel: calls 300
Osviken: raises 260 to 620
the_donscott: calls 260
indiesamuel: calls 260



*** FLOP *** [Qs Ac Ah]



indiesamuel: checks
Osviken: bets 20
the_donscott: calls 20
indiesamuel: calls 20



*** TURN *** [Qs Ac Ah] [As]



indiesamuel: checks
Osviken: bets 20
the_donscott: raises 1194 to 1214
indiesamuel: calls 1214
Osviken: raises 1194 to 2408
the_donscott: raises 1962 to 4370 and is all-in
indiesamuel: folds
Osviken: calls 797 and is all-in
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Comments

  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2012
    You might want to erase the first word of that hand history. Not sure the moderators approve of other sites being plugged.

    Why do you only call the 5-bet pre-flop? You can obviously get it in here. The only reason not to get it in is fear of AA and if that's what you think he has you should be folding... or are you set-mining with KK?

    After that it plays pretty weird. The flop min-bet is difficult to understand. I'd be confused.

    The turn gives you the second nuts and you'll get value from a Queen... but the Ace is well within the two players' ranges. Tough. QQ is certainly a 5-betting hand pre-flop but so is AK and an Ace forms part of the pre-flop caller's range... Really tough.

    I think the mistake is pre-flop though. You gave yourself some tricky decisions by seeing a flop three-handed rather than getting it in. You can't allow yourself to be afraid of AA when you have KK. You need really solid evidence that they can't be making this 5-bet raise with AK or QQ or even another KK. I don't think you have that information.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2012
    You're not playing sats in to big main events again are you Don? lol.

    When you combine the possible ranges of both players, they involve lots of Aces. But yeah I think calling the 5bet pre was a mistake. Bit of a horrible spot after the flop comes out. I can't see why AK would bet 20 into that pot on the flop, or why the other guy would call 20 if he had AK. The only reason I could see for the call is either he has nothing but I'm not folding for 20 into a 2000 chip pot, or he has AA and knows it's VERY unlikely that you've hit anything and would prefer to let someone bluff at it, rather than losing value.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Playing kings different in a sat, 200x deep:
    You're not playing sats in to big main events again are you Don? lol. When you combine the possible ranges of both players, they involve lots of Aces. But yeah I think calling the 5bet pre was a mistake. Bit of a horrible spot after the flop comes out. I can't see why AK would bet 20 into that pot on the flop, or why the other guy would call 20 if he had AK. The only reason I could see for the call is either he has nothing but I'm not folding for 20 into a 2000 chip pot, or he has AA and knows it's VERY unlikely that you've hit anything and would prefer to let someone bluff at it, rather than losing value.
    Posted by Lambert180
    YES and i only flopping made it. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D UKIPT Nottingham here i come.

    The reason for the flat, Surley if i 6bet im pulling my hand face up. The flat on the flop, well i aint folding T2P for 20 into a 2k pot as you say. The turn is probably the dream card for me.

    Anyways i posted this hand for feedback and im happy to discuss the flat of a 5 bet or 6 betting rule here
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2012
    Well you could say you're turning your hand face up, but I you could just as easily say his 5bet is turning his hand face up a bit too. He clearly is happy to get chips in, if you get him to fold, I'd be more than happy to add all them dead chips to my stack.

    But yeah I definitely see no reason to raise flop, and yeah turn is the dream card. So what did he have? I reckon it's gotta be KQ, QQ, JJ or TT.

    Congrats on winning the seat. Good luck in the UKIPT.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2012
    It's true that you're only ever going to be perceived as having a monster with a 6-bet, but anyone that 5-bets is usually willing to call it off and, if not, You'll be taking down alot of dead money. The reason not to call is that you guarantee seeing a flop three-handed. You're unlikely to improve on the flop but playing two players means you dip below 50% to win the hand against two random hands. You'll also lose value against AK type hands if the flop misses them and QQ if an Ace or King comes down. The problems of playing KK on an Ace-high flop are pretty obvious and I'm sure you don't need me to tell you about them.

    6-bet and be happy to take down the dead money or sometimes be called by AK, QQ and ocassionally JJ or worse. You will face AA sometimes but I think there are more good hands for you in their 5-betting range than bad hands.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited March 2012
    As discussed i 6 bet and aim to get in KK is too strong with no reads not to try get it in asap pre

    Post flop perfect.

    obv do agree with points about playing bigger events but wp and enjoy it :)
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Playing kings different in a sat, 200x deep:
    Well you could say you're turning your hand face up, but I you could just as easily say his 5bet is turning his hand face up a bit too. He clearly is happy to get chips in, if you get him to fold, I'd be more than happy to add all them dead chips to my stack. But yeah I definitely see no reason to raise flop, and yeah turn is the dream card. So what did he have? I reckon it's gotta be KQ, QQ, JJ or TT. Congrats on winning the seat. Good luck in the UKIPT.
    Posted by Lambert180
    i rekon you wouldnt believe me.
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