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SPT Brighton - My Exit Hand
Lambert180
Member Posts: 12,197
Hi guys,
I just wanted to get your opinions on my exit hand from SPT Brighton this weekend. Looking back at it, I think I played it pretty horribly for a few reasons... inflated the pot pre OOP, which made my c-bet too big, then after the call, I was doomed.
Blinds are 50/100, I've got about 4500, playerX has about the same but he gets out the way anyway, and the villian has me covered, not by much maybe 500-1000 more, but enough to take me out.
PlayerX (UTG) - minraises to 200
Villian (UTG+4 on a 10handed table) - 3bets to 500
Me (on the BB) - 4bets it up to 1200
PlayerX gets out the way, Villian flat calls.
Flop comes pretty blank (for me anyway) I think 348 (2 clubs). Pot by this point is about 2500, feel I can't just check/fold after my preflop play, I put 1500 in, villian flat calls.
Turns bring a K so it's 348K, I've hit TPTK, only got about 1750 left and the pot is about 5000 now so I just move all-in, insta-called (obviously) by pocket Kings.
Drawing dead on the turn
Would be really interested to get some thoughts on this hand. I think the whole problem arose from me inflating the pot out of position with ace high.
I just wanted to get your opinions on my exit hand from SPT Brighton this weekend. Looking back at it, I think I played it pretty horribly for a few reasons... inflated the pot pre OOP, which made my c-bet too big, then after the call, I was doomed.
Blinds are 50/100, I've got about 4500, playerX has about the same but he gets out the way anyway, and the villian has me covered, not by much maybe 500-1000 more, but enough to take me out.
PlayerX (UTG) - minraises to 200
Villian (UTG+4 on a 10handed table) - 3bets to 500
Me (on the BB) - 4bets it up to 1200
PlayerX gets out the way, Villian flat calls.
Flop comes pretty blank (for me anyway) I think 348 (2 clubs). Pot by this point is about 2500, feel I can't just check/fold after my preflop play, I put 1500 in, villian flat calls.
Turns bring a K so it's 348K, I've hit TPTK, only got about 1750 left and the pot is about 5000 now so I just move all-in, insta-called (obviously) by pocket Kings.
Drawing dead on the turn
Would be really interested to get some thoughts on this hand. I think the whole problem arose from me inflating the pot out of position with ace high.
Comments
I hate putting in half of your stack on the flop with Ace-high. He's called a 4-bet pre-flop and this isn't a raiser's flop. I'm surprised to see someone call a 4-bet pre-flop with KK, but the turn just coolers you with so much in the pot already. Check-folding the flop might feel pretty weak but this flop isn't going to scare anyone holding TT or better and his pre-flop 3-betting-calling range is probably crushing you at this point.
As for the pre-flop 4-bet; I think it's the right play. The problem is that you didn't take heed of the information you gained from that 4-bet. What is he ever calling with that he's going to fold on this flop? Only another AK, really.
Of course if the 3-better is a total rock, you might have been able to lay this down. In a vacuum I think the 4-bet is fine.
Ok. Preflop you have committed a quarter of your stack to 4-bet oop. But the size of your 4-bet is one to encourage the 3-better to call. Having done this and got your call then you must relise that any further betting from you will result in you pot committing yourself or sigh folding a massive chunk of your chips away.
With this in mind seeing a flop when you only have about a 1 in 3 chance of hiiting it in any meaningful way is a bit of a high risk way of playing with that many chips committed preflop. All you need is someone to give you a little bit of rope here and they will just watch you take yourself out of the tournament.Once you c-bet that flop that is it all your decisions are gone and you have no choice but to go all the way especially when that turn hits.
So lets see what options pre you had.
Folding: Very tight with that hand but i suppose it is possible.
Flat calling the 3-bet with original raiser still to act. Just yuck.
4-Betting: Well if you want to play the hand then this is the only way to go. Now as to the raise sizing. Do we really want to have callers? Are we happy to take it down there? Are we happy to get our stack in pre?
When we can answer these questions then the right raise size will come to us. For me personally when in a situation where the bet stands at 11% of our stack already then we ought to be looking at stacks here and whether or not we want to commit because there is not really enough behind to play down the streets easily with.In my opinion this hand is good enough to consider committing yourself pre and i would therefore not only be 4- betting but much larger in order to play for stacks preflop. This also gives you more chance of getting a fold which your raise size didnt really do.
Just my opinion and no doubt others will argue with it all.
I think you can consider folding pre v some villains, 3betting an utg raise with 5 still to act is pretty strong on a ten handed table. I also dont think calling is completely out of the question. If Im 4betting, which I usually would, I just jam, unless you think 4betting small likely induces a bluff shove
Flop is a horrible spot, prob c/f. Not sure you can b/f with those stacks if you are considering it bet less
Definitely check turn, obv call it off if he bets
If you've been called on a 4 bet
surely you get the message?
No way Jose! are they going to be frightened by your actions!
You messed up one hand and it cost you your Tourney
Learn to give credit to 4 bet callers in £110 MTT's IMO
don't understand the yuk comments regarding flatting but hey ho
never shoving 45bb deep facing that action v solid players holding AK
c/f flop is no problem
you need to seriously think about what they are calling or shoving facing a 4bet
Is 4-bet folding for nearly 1/3 of my stack weak play? Yes it is, but how many people at a live table actually 5-bet into a cold 4-better with anything less than KK? Not many. If I'm called, then their range becomes AK, QQ, JJ and TT in my mind, so I need to hit to be happy.
People will say that if I'm willing to fold after a 4-bet then I might as well be bluffing but when we're called with AK, we can be reasonably happy that top-pair on the flop will be good for us. That's the added value of having the AK.
I don't mind shoving here since we can add the dead money of 8.5BB to our 45BB stack if it gets through. It's not wrong to shove and I'd often advocate it. 30BB or fewer makes this an easy shove but with 45BB, I think it's more tricky and we have other options.
I was still kinda in the mindset of online play and having 15 secs to think about it, and I made my decisions far too quickly, the c-bet on the flop was horrible for that situation and once I'd done that, then hit, I was stuck. I reckon everyone at the table must have known I was out, my shove got called instantly and it was clear from my face I knew I was beat.
You learned a lesson!
You won't make the same mistake again!
You've still got a cracking girlfriend!
but more importantly you made it to Brighton, made friends and had a good time!
Isn't that what SPT's are all about?
massive +1
MP
I would advocate 4-betting with any hand we intend to enter this pot with. If we call, we still have the original raiser to act behind us and they will at least call the extra 300 about 99% of the time. Alot of that 99% they will actually 4-bet it themselves so we might as well have set fire to our 500 chips. When they call we'lll see a flop, out of position, three handed and we'll miss that flop 2/3 times. Even when we hit, it will be tough to know how good our hand is since it will most likely be only a one-pair hand and we'll be acting first into two unknown hands. Worst, we'll have wasted our premium hand and the chance to steal the dead money pre-flop, by passing up the opportunity to show strength with a cold 4-bet.
I cannot countenance the idea of calling pre-flop. I think people that are advocating it are doing so with the knowledge of our opponents hand in their minds but most players are capable of 3-betting with a far wider range of hands than KK. If you think your opponent has a super-tight 3-betting range, then it should be a fold, not a call...
As I say, if you're entering this pot I think you should be 4-betting. No need to get involved with anything worse than TT or AQ but if we're in it, we should try to win it pre-flop.