You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Issues with the Poker Clinic TV show
BorinLoner
Member Posts: 3,863
If I was watching the show live I would have got this message into the show. However I have to make this point now:
This is the thread that one of the hands was taken from:
Running deep and made a play against the chip leader
Now, in this thread the original poster misled us about the hand and our comments were based upon his reporting of the hand. He provided no hand history and so we took his word for it. Unfortunately for him and us, this hand was selected to be shown on the Poker Clinic on 865. The advice we gave was also presented and frankly, it made AMYBR, Grantorino and I look a bit silly.
Clearly my ego is bruised by this. AMYBR, Grantorino and I go to quite alot of effort on the clinic to give people advice but we can only offer advice in good faith. We offer significant debate and I understand that sometimes our thousands of words have to be boiled down to a few sentences in order to suit the format of the TV show. However it's quite a different question when we're made to look like mugs by someone misleading us and by someone at 865 failing to check up on the hand.
I'm pretty upset, as you can probably tell, since I put many hours into replying to peoples' posts, but if I didn't offer some constructive suggestions I'd just be a moaner. I don't want to be a moaner, so here is a suggestion:
If Sky Poker want to quote something we've replied to on the clinic that's fine but would it be so difficult to ask us to provide the quote ourselves? If you want to reduce 300 words into 30 words, you are always going to warp the meaning. I've had this happen before on the show and I've felt that I could have provided a much better summation if asked for it myself.
Overall I do love the show but this isn't the first time that I've been made to look a little bit less than clever by the production methods.
This is the thread that one of the hands was taken from:
Running deep and made a play against the chip leader
Now, in this thread the original poster misled us about the hand and our comments were based upon his reporting of the hand. He provided no hand history and so we took his word for it. Unfortunately for him and us, this hand was selected to be shown on the Poker Clinic on 865. The advice we gave was also presented and frankly, it made AMYBR, Grantorino and I look a bit silly.
Clearly my ego is bruised by this. AMYBR, Grantorino and I go to quite alot of effort on the clinic to give people advice but we can only offer advice in good faith. We offer significant debate and I understand that sometimes our thousands of words have to be boiled down to a few sentences in order to suit the format of the TV show. However it's quite a different question when we're made to look like mugs by someone misleading us and by someone at 865 failing to check up on the hand.
I'm pretty upset, as you can probably tell, since I put many hours into replying to peoples' posts, but if I didn't offer some constructive suggestions I'd just be a moaner. I don't want to be a moaner, so here is a suggestion:
If Sky Poker want to quote something we've replied to on the clinic that's fine but would it be so difficult to ask us to provide the quote ourselves? If you want to reduce 300 words into 30 words, you are always going to warp the meaning. I've had this happen before on the show and I've felt that I could have provided a much better summation if asked for it myself.
Overall I do love the show but this isn't the first time that I've been made to look a little bit less than clever by the production methods.
Comments
Morning Mr Borin. Firstly, apologies that there was some confusion, & I’ll try & give a balanced reply.
1) Most things that go wrong trace back to the ORIGINAL error. It is unfortunate that the owner of the hand misled you/us with the wrong hand or hand history. That is where this problem arose.
2) In an ideal world, the TV staff who select the Posts & hands, with subsequent comments, cannot really, in fairness, be expected to notice something like that unless they are quite experienced at poker. Big ask for regular TV crews, that. In fairness to them, I doubt an error like that has EVER occurred on 865 before, in over 5 years.
3) The graphics which quote replies are “summaries”. On a TV show, it is not often possible to read the whole of a Post for obvious reasons, & most do need to be summarised, down to the essentials. It is usually done quite well, I think, but in this case, it was compounded by the initial error I suspect.
4) We, in the Studio, firstly said we disagreed with the “quoted” (abbreviated) Posts you & others made – but we soon worked out that the shown hand, & advice given, did NOT match up, & we said as much, & apologised. Later, we had some e-mails confirming that there had been some confusion between the OP & the hand history he quoted.
I, & we, regret the error, & sincerely apologise if you think we made you look less than competent, but we did quickly work out that “a” did not match “b”, & said as much, live on air.
There was no intention whatsoever to deliberately suggest bad advice. I can well imagine your angst, I find it easy to imagine wearing your shoes – but you also need to imagine wearing our shoes, too!
By way of trying to mend this fence, can we offer you Free Entry into Tuesday’s “Thews @ Ten”?
Thew @ 10 just about settles my angst
@borin, I always watch the clinic shows and in fairness TK did spot this mistake VERY early. The shows are obviously an edited version of some threads in the clinic and I certainly realise that a lot of the comments used are possibly edited. It certainly didn't make you look "silly". The "main" contributors to the clinic enhance the learning experience of us "learners & improvers" and if you were to stop responding because of this it would be a shame.
pad
p.s. Good luck in the Thewy!
Hmmm... I do come across as being a bit annoyed, don't I? In my defence it was 4am and I was watching the show on Sky+ because I couldn't sleep. That's my excuse for being irritable.
I do stand by most of what I have said. There are many posters on the clinic who are content with posting just a few words and these may be more suitable to be quoted on the show. However a few of us try to offer more in-depth analysis and it is almost impossible to summarise our opinions in just a few words for the sake of the show. Last night was an extreme example, for obvious reasons, but when our more elaborate posts are cut down into a bite-size chunk they inevitably lose their overall context and can make us look a bit dim. I tend to cringe a bit when my alias is mentioned.
All that aside, I appreciate that it's a tough task to please everyone and the main point of the show is to get the experts' opinions on the hands, not mine. I actually feel a bit sorry for the original poster. A little harmless fib has been exposed on the telly and got my heckles up as well. I bet he didn't see that coming. lol
Mr. Kendall, it's very generous of you to offer me a free crack at the Thews at ten but I'm afraid I'll have to decline. I hope you'll extend the same offer to AMYBR and Grantorino but for my part I wouldn't feel very good about accepting a "reward" for getting steamed-up and having a whinge. Thank you for the offer and thank you once again for the kind words last night.
Thank you Sir, you are a proper Gent. I'll save the freebie for another day, but that is most gracious of you.
As to the "quotes" that the Show puts up on graphics, summarised from much longer Posts on the Poker Clinic board, I have to be honest with you, & say it (quoting them fully) won't ever happen.
It is NOT that the viewers need or want to hear the "Experts" (in the studio) views, it is more that it is not done, & EXTREMELY bad form in TV Production to put up a graphic which shows a whole wall of text.
No TV Show, ever, anywhere, does that - it just makes the eyes bleed.
No complaints about the on-screen team at all, just a slight issue with the show format which I feel could be executed a little better. Nobody wants the whole thread to be read out, of course, but perhaps the hands which are intended to be shown could be re-posted in a seperate thread and contributors invited to summarise their views in a few sentences. That way we couldn't be misrepresented and could choose to not be quoted at all, if preferred.
Yes, understood. Quite difficult to do, in reality though, given the time constraints in asembling each Show.
The Production Team & Gallery Crew already do a very long day on "Show nights" - 2pm until Midnight.
You make a fair point, though.
Threads, & questions, get the answers they deserve.
Till the day I die I will never understand why people who starts threads entitled "SORT IT OUT SKY" or use invective itt, really think they will get a good, or even ANY, reply.
Do they not even understand basic O-Level human psychology?
If you want something, first, walk the same way as your opponent. Then put your arm round his shoulder. Then, ever so gently-wently, turn him to face the opposite direction. Then hold hands & off you both go, & constructive dialogue will ensue.
Cooey-wooey mode wins every time over Mr Angry.
Cheers everyone. Very kind.
Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham