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Advice please...

ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
edited March 2012 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Raggity Small blind  10.00 10.00 1790.00
woodsy5011 Big blind  20.00 30.00 2250.00
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • A
   
doncheadle Call  20.00 50.00 1470.00
jagmanxk59 Call  20.00 70.00 2110.00
ClintonH83 Raise  80.00 150.00 1890.00
onepara26 Raise  320.00 470.00 2020.00
Raggity Fold     
woodsy5011 Fold     
doncheadle Fold     
jagmanxk59 Fold     
ClintonH83 Call  240.00 710.00 1650.00
Flop
  
  • 10
  • 10
  • 2
   
ClintonH83 Check     
onepara26 Bet  710.00 1420.00 1310.00
ClintonH83 All-in  1650.00 3070.00 0.00
onepara26 Call  940.00 4010.00 370.00
ClintonH83 Show
  • Q
  • A
   
onepara26 Show
  • Q
  • K
   
Turn
  
  • 6
   
River
  
  • K
   
onepara26 Win Two Pairs, Kings and 10s 4010.00  4380.00
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Comments

  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012

    How could i have played this hand better?? re raised all in pre flop? His pre flop raise i thought he had AJ?
    I knew he had nothing on the flop and was always going to re raise a bet

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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited March 2012
    I'd either raise to at least 100 pre or limp behind, it's the early stages of the tournament no need to get crazy. As played fold to the 3b - post flop is just madness
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  • AcidMan27AcidMan27 Member Posts: 3,752
    edited March 2012
    Not a massive fan of calling such a big 3bet oop with A/Q.

    As played with the shove on the flop i'm not sure what hand you're representing.  


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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012

    I wasnt really trying to rep anything just thought my AQ was the best hand? Dont know why but AJ come into my head and i sold myself thats what they had? I definatly didnt believe his flop bet

    I dunno, is my all in on the flop not good enough to make him fold?? think i would of done with a re raised bluff having 900 chips left and being early in the game?

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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2012
    I dont understand your Q tbh.

    You read the hand well and he gets a sick outdraw?

    Pre flop it just comes down to read/image.  Prob a 4bet with view to get it in - or a fold to his raise pre imo.  If we do 4bet and he stations us we are shipping any flop regardless.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    main question is really should i of pushed all in pre flop?
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Advice please...:
    main question is really should i of pushed all in pre flop?
    Posted by ClintonH83
    Then just this part :p

    "Pre flop it just comes down to read/image.  Prob a 4bet with view to get it in - or a fold to his raise pre imo.  If we do 4bet and he stations us we are shipping any flop regardless."
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2012
    Never would I shove pre with AQ in that spot unless you had reads he's a maniac and makes very loose calls. It's the first level of a tournament and you're both about 100BB deep which means if you shove, the hands you're gonna get called by are AK,AA,KK,QQ, that's probably about it, so you will always be crushed.

    When he 3bets that big, this early I'd probably just fold it, because there's no point getting involved and putting 15% of your stack in pre when you have no idea where you are. Brave jam on the flop, and you're actually crushing him so dunno why you're complaining, it's just a bad beat.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited March 2012
    Raise 100 pre fold to 3bet normally or shove if you think he's a maniac.

    Check fold flop as played, he's potted it which seem pretty strong to me also giving you hardly any FE so when you shove you should be dead or draing very thin. Obvz he has KQ and you're ahead but most times I'd imagine this won't be the outcome and you'll just be comitting suicide very early doors. 
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Advice please...:
    How could i have played this hand better?? re raised all in pre flop? His pre flop raise i thought he had AJ? I knew he had nothing on the flop and was always going to re raise a bet
    Posted by ClintonH83
    Re: "I thought he had AJ" - You can't put him on one specific hand from him 3-betting on the button and c-betting the flop. Whatever hands he is 3-betting with, he's going to c-bet with on this flop. You can't say "I thought he had AJ" unless his 3-bet range only consists of AJ and nothing else. You'll lose a **** of a lot of money in poker if you assign your opponents a single hand as opposed to a range of hands.

    Re: "I knew he had nothing" - Err, how? Unless you know he only bets pot with bluffs, then you don't know he has nothing. Even then, he's 3 bet pre-flop, his nothing could still be beating your AQ.

    Pre-flop, I don't think you can ever call here. AQ is just so awkward, especially as you've been 3-bet and you're out of position against the aggressor, you're going to be check/folding a lot of flops, if you hit your ace, then your opponent having AK is still a serious possibility and you probably go broke. 

    I don't mind a 4-bet shove pre-flop IF you think you're potentially going to get called by worse hands - There are some players out there who will stack off very light, and AQ crushes their range. There's also players who won't call a 4-bet jam with worse than AQ, and I don't want to call and have the problem I mentioned earlier, so I think folding is definitely an option here as well. 

    Opponent dependant, but never calling in a million years in this spot IMO - Fold or jam depending on how you perceive your opponent - Jam if he'll call with worse.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited March 2012

    You havent posted any reads, so how do you put him on specifically AJ?

    Prob fold pre to 3bet, dont mind postflop

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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Advice please...:
      I don't mind a 4-bet shove pre-flop IF you think you're potentially going to get called by worse hands - There are some players out there who will stack off very light, and AQ crushes their range. There's also players who won't call a 4-bet jam with worse than AQ, and I don't want to call and have the problem I mentioned earlier, so I think folding is definitely an option here as well.  Opponent dependant, but never calling in a million years in this spot IMO - Fold or jam depending on how you perceive your opponent - Jam if he'll call with worse.
    Posted by EvilPingu
    I think this is what i should of done 4-bet shove pre flop! The first couple of hands they were playing agressive, re raising alot and when he re raised me i thought my hand was ok, at best im putting him on AJ and i dont know why just had a feeling for it? The main feeling tho was that i was winning, and even on the flop i thought i was winning!

    Im a begginer as you all know so you know more than me but surly if you feel your winning and he's being agressive you cant just fold because he re raised you? I know i made the wrong move calling, i should of folded or jammed but this is me not having the balls to back up my feeling pre flop lol

    I did call it right tho that i was winning pre flop & on the flop! surly that gets me some brownie points?? i know i ended up losing but my feeling was right lol

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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Advice please...:
    In Response to Re: Advice please... : Then just this part :p "Pre flop it just comes down to read/image.  Prob a 4bet with view to get it in - or a fold to his raise pre imo.  If we do 4bet and he stations us we are shipping any flop regardless."
    Posted by AMYBR
    sorry didnt see this lol
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2012
    got tbh I dont like a 4bet shove given stacks.  4bet to call a shove or fold seems better.  We chase out all the hands we beat with the shove + 4bet looks stronger, folding out a lot of pps that elect to flip.

    Obv we are only 4betting to snap a shove.  Think shove is OTT + result is going to same in unknown hands vs nut hands i.e 4 bet to get in on flop when we are stationed oop.  Goes in on first street regardless.  Once we decide AQ is good 4bet stationed is no diff from 4bet shove in terms of likely pot size, only diff is we keep in worse hands and retain a bullet.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    lenny135 Small blind  30.00 30.00 3335.00
    jamielou Big blind  60.00 90.00 8300.00
     Your hole cards
    • A
    • A
    		   
    mickjack Raise  240.00 330.00 7795.00
    lordgee12 Fold     
    ClintonH83 Raise  600.00 930.00 3370.00
    lenny135 Fold     
    jamielou Fold     
    mickjack Call  360.00 1290.00 7435.00
    Flop
      
    • 7
    • Q
    • 10
    		   
    mickjack Bet  1290.00 2580.00 6145.00
    ClintonH83 All-in  3370.00 5950.00 0.00
    mickjack Call  2080.00 8030.00 4065.00
    mickjack Show
    • J
    • 9
    		   
    ClintonH83 Show
    • A
    • A
    		   
    Turn
      
    • 8
    		   
    River
      
    • 2
    		   
    mickjack Win Straight to the Queen 8030.00  12095.00
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012

    How much shud i off raised here pre flop? another 300?

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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    AA vs. J9 - Standard. You got your money in as a 2:1 favourite and your opponent hit his draw, and he was right to call as well with the amount he'd already put in the pot.

    Raise size pre-flop looks fine to me, as long as you're doing the same 3-bet size with all of your 3-betting range.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012

    Im thinking maybe a push all in pre might of been a better choice as looking at his chip stack a 360 raise is not much for him to call and see a flop? What do you think?

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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Advice please...:
    Im thinking maybe a push all in pre might of been a better choice as looking at his chip stack a 360 raise is not much for him to call and see a flop? What do you think?
    Posted by ClintonH83
    You've got the best starting hand in Hold'em. You want him to call. He'll get lucky sometimes, and this was one of them times.
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited March 2012

    Oh yeah i defo want a call but just think ive give him a good look at the flop for 360 when he's got 8,000 chips

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