Value bet or not to value bet

rancid

Intrested in your views

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
PJ122	Small blind		400.00	400.00	29031.25
leefish05	Big blind		800.00	1200.00	16355.00
	Your hole cards	K K
TIPTOPTIM	Fold
macapaca	Raise		1600.00	2800.00	35807.50
rancid	Raise		4000.00	6800.00	40465.75
deanom1245	Fold
PJ122	Fold
leefish05	Fold
macapaca	Call		2400.00	9200.00	33407.50
Flop
		A J Q
macapaca	Check
rancid	Check
Turn
		6
macapaca	Check
rancid	Check
River
		K
macapaca	Check
rancid                ?

percival09

I check back

BorinLoner

It's surely not a value bet if you only get called by better. You might bet it to get him off a ten or a weak flush though.

EvilPingu

Been staring at this hand history for 25 minutes, typing stuff, deleting stuff, and deciding what to post... With 15 seconds to act, I probably check it back.

I'm off to bed, will think about this tomorrow and probably post again, I'm watching this thread with interest

pod1

not for me mate

AMYBR

No.

Amusingly if Kd doesnt come off I do for sure.

Dudeskin8

Got to be check, as can't see what worse can call on 4 to flush and a 10 making broadway....

Donut64

 If you bet here you need to turn your hand into a bluff hoping to get rid of a striaght or a small flush or just accept the showdown value in your hand.

 In this situation the decision you make is not about the cards in your hand but about what you know about your opposition!

 If he is a doubting Thomas he may call you with an ace but will also call with a 10 or any diamond so not worth the risk.

grantorino

bet 4 value from 2 pairz

rancid

In Response to Re: Value bet or not to value bet:

bet 4 value from 2 pairz
Posted by grantorino

This was my thinking afterwards, surely I can b/f this spot - 2 prs/sets call 3600 or something - 3 bet pot - surely range smashes that flop and run out - thought oppo had under pair to board with possible diamond -  hence the check on end

How about betting turn

thin value all over but oppo is never checking flushes/10's on river - emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I am obviously not betting big value but sure I can eeek out thin value from hands I beat

AMYBR

We are assuming a 2pr hand is bad enough to call?

Just totally going to level self if we get cr'd river.  I dont really see any point in going for thin value on end.

(unless we know we are bluffing)

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The_Don90

I defo aint value betting the river here v most opponents. However against some ill maybe b/f half the pot. Unfortunetly i think alot of clever people may c/r a semi decent hand here, which concludes to me we cant call so we have to therefore check back.

However i am 100% betting the turn. Our opponent has now checked two streets to us on a board which smashed our range. I might even c-bet the flop purley becaue that board smashed our range. By checking i think we show we have KK/TT

EvilPingu

After 4 days, I have decided that I would go for a bet/fold here... If only you could actually do that at the table, tank forever while everyone else goes out, easiest final table ever FTW?

In this spot, betting polarises our range - we should either have a flush which we're getting value from, or we have nothing and are bluffing as it's the only way we can win the pot. We're expected to check back hands such as straights, or this one where we have showdown value but very little value in betting. If our opponent thinks we're capable of bluffing here, then I think there's thin value all over this board as we can get called by worse bluff catching hands.

Equally, if our opponent thinks we are only ever betting this spot with the flush, we can get straights to fold, and as it's been checked on all 3 streets, our opponent may have an underpair with a diamond which we can fold out by betting, too.

I'm betting 2,400ish and folding to a re-raise.

rancid

In Response to Re: Value bet or not to value bet:

I defo aint value betting the river here v most opponents. However against some ill maybe b/f half the pot. Unfortunetly i think alot of clever people may c/r a semi decent hand here, which concludes to me we cant call so we have to therefore check back. However i am 100% betting the turn. Our opponent has now checked two streets to us on a board which smashed our range. I might even c-bet the flop purley becaue that board smashed our range. By checking i think we show we have KK/TT
Posted by The_Don90

What hands can we get calls from on the flop or turn that we beat in a 3 bet pot

rancid

In Response to Re: Value bet or not to value bet:

After 4 days, I have decided that I would go for a bet/fold here... If only you could actually do that at the table, tank forever while everyone else goes out, easiest final table ever FTW? In this spot, betting polarises our range - we should either have a flush which we're getting value from, or we have nothing and are bluffing as it's the only way we can win the pot. We're expected to check back hands such as straights, or this one where we have showdown value but very little value in betting. If our opponent thinks we're capable of bluffing here, then I think there's thin value all over this board as we can get called by worse bluff catching hands. Equally, if our opponent thinks we are only ever betting this spot with the flush, we can get straights to fold, and as it's been checked on all 3 streets, our opponent may have an underpair with a diamond which we can fold out by betting, too. I'm betting 2,400ish and folding to a re-raise.
Posted by EvilPingu

Kinda agree we can do a polarised bet on the river where oppo can only raise with better but only call with worse but the only problem is oppo can also call with a 10 where they will not raise
If we bear in mind that oppo can call with a 10 it turns our b/f into a smaller amount imo - like you say 2400 or something
Obviously betting smaller brings along the obvious fact that oppo if capable enough will raise with better and with bluffs

If you think oppo is not capable of raising with a bluff then b/f becomes easier and the only other question is - should we b/f more - 3500 or something - how likely is it that oppo as a ten in a 3 bet pot - mmmmmmm - poker

Another consideration is, if you think oppo is capable of raising with bluffs here, then we should indeed consider b/c 2400 )