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Just can't help myself...

El_MogulEl_Mogul Member Posts: 158
edited April 2012 in Poker Chat
Okay so I'm a winning poker player and in the year and a bit that I've been playing online poker I've made just over £500...BUT i feel that one of my biggest leaks is cash. I'm more of a STT and MTT player than a cash player and I know this but occasionaly I will get bored of playing STTs and MTTs and get the urge to play cash. When I'm in the right frame of mind I do alright in cash but more often than not I lose money. If I didn't play cash my I know my winnings  would be more than £500. Wish there was an option for Sky Poker to block my access to cash games... lol, but seriously I'm just looking for advice on what to do when I get the urge to play cash as I know I'm a fish in this format! Any advice would be appreciated. :)

Comments

  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited April 2012
    im kinda the same but do make on cash when i do play um so my best advice would be to realise that people on cash play a lot looser and arnt worried about calling raises with any 2 and shoving as much as in an mtt or stt because they can rebuy.

    As you said you do ok at them now and again but prob lose overall and thats because maybe you do like i do at times and stay too long when your winning, then some players come along who are super loose and shove with any 2 and get lucky ending your winning streak and you leaving the table with nothing.

    Set an amount you want to win on a cash table for example if you play 2/4p and you buy in for 2.60 and your up 8 pounds, leave. Or if you buy in for 4 pounds and make 12 leave. If you continuasly keep buying in because you have lost a race for instance, set your self the max number of buy ins for that table and how much you are prepared to lose, for instance i normaly do a max of 2-3 buy ins to combat the varience and if it isnt working for me on that table and im not feeling it! move to another table.

    you have to be prepared to rebuy in cash unlike stt and mtts. If you can multi table its more profitable in the long run also. And be prepared for chasers a lot more in cash than stt and mtts. Id probably stick with one or the other so you can set your mind for that format and then when your ready switch back.

    Check out dohhs thread on here as its very informative for cash play so i heard.
  • El_MogulEl_Mogul Member Posts: 158
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    im kinda the same but do make on cash when i do play um so my best advice would be to realise that people on cash play a lot looser and arnt worried about calling raises with any 2 and shoving as much as in an mtt or stt because they can rebuy. As you said you do ok at them now and again but prob lose overall and thats because maybe you do like i do at times and stay too long when your winning, then some players come along who are super loose and shove with any 2 and get lucky ending your winning streak and you leaving the table with nothing. Set an amount you want to win on a cash table for example if you play 2/4p and you buy in for 2.60 and your up 8 pounds, leave. Or if you buy in for 4 pounds and make 12 leave. If you continuasly keep buying in because you have lost a race for instance, set your self the max number of buy ins for that table and how much you are prepared to lose, for instance i normaly do a max of 2-3 buy ins to combat the varience and if it isnt working for me on that table and im not feeling it! move to another table. you have to be prepared to rebuy in cash unlike stt and mtts. If you can multi table its more profitable in the long run also. And be prepared for chasers a lot more in cash than stt and mtts. Id probably stick with one or the other so you can set your mind for that format and then when your ready switch back. Check out dohhs thread on here as its very informative for cash play so i heard.
    Posted by Dazler
    The thing is my bankroll on Sky is now relatively big and I'm used to playing higher stakes thank2p/4p so going back down to that level would be quite mindnumbing lol. I think I'm just going to play STTs and MTTs for a while and then play cash again when I can afford to lose... as I do want to get better at cash but I feel like I'm probably going to have to lose money before I will improve... if that makes sense! Although what you said about leaving when you reach a certain amount and setting yourself limits probably will be advantageous to my cash mindset so when I do start playing cash again I will definitely incorporate these guidelines!
  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself... : The thing is my bankroll on Sky is now relatively big and I'm used to playing higher stakes thank2p/4p so going back down to that level would be quite mindnumbing lol. I think I'm just going to play STTs and MTTs for a while and then play cash again when I can afford to lose... as I do want to get better at cash but I feel like I'm probably going to have to lose money before I will improve... if that makes sense! Although what you said about leaving when you reach a certain amount and setting yourself limits probably will be advantageous to my cash mindset so when I do start playing cash again I will definitely incorporate these guidelines!
    Posted by El_Mogul
    the limit was just an example but should work for all levels, but multi tabling prob not such a good idea at the higher stakes. And yea practice makes perfect im getting back into it myself and i love it and also hate it completly diffent game but you can rack up a lot of money when you master it and also cash for points bonus sky rockets. GL m8 anyways let me know how you get on when you make the switch :)
  • El_MogulEl_Mogul Member Posts: 158
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself... : the limit was just an example but should work for all levels, but multi tabling prob not such a good idea at the higher stakes. And yea practice makes perfect im getting back into it myself and i love it and also hate it completly diffent game but you can rack up a lot of money when you master it and also cash for points bonus sky rockets. GL m8 anyways let me know how you get on when you make the switch :)
    Posted by Dazler
    Haha ok, cheers for the help :)
  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited April 2012
    I have been a successful S+G & MTT player since day 1, but a cash flamer.

    IMO if you are great @ one, is very hard to master other.

    So tempting to delve into cash with what we perceive as winning game.  But we lack the hand to hand dicipline and patience.

    Tournament, we are driving towards something, our goal is finite.

    Cash, we need a much deeper understanding of the game.

    If your a winning Tplayer, heck play to your strengths.  I think I'm in the best 2% in world lol, but I still know I'm not good enough to play cash :p

    in other words play to your strengths.  If you know your bleeding in cash hold off.
  • El_MogulEl_Mogul Member Posts: 158
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    I have been a successful S+G & MTT player since day 1, but a cash flamer. IMO if you are great @ one, is very hard to master other. So tempting to delve into cash with what we perceive as winning game.  But we lack the hand to hand dicipline and patience. Tournament, we are driving towards something, our goal is finite. Cash, we need a much deeper understanding of the game. If your a winning Tplayer, heck play to your strengths.  I think I'm in the best 2% in world lol, but I still know I'm not good enough to play cash :p in other words play to your strengths.  If you know your bleeding in cash hold off.
    Posted by AMYBR
    Sound advice, and yeah I'm beginning to realise most winning poker places are either good at one or the other, very rarely both. So yeah at the minute I'm just grinding out £5.50 DYMs with a few touneys now and then and I'm doing OK so I'll stick with that for a good while. BTW bold statement about being in the top 2% in the world :P
  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself... : Sound advice, and yeah I'm beginning to realise most winning poker places are either good at one or the other, very rarely both. So yeah at the minute I'm just grinding out £5.50 DYMs with a few touneys now and then and I'm doing OK so I'll stick with that for a good while. BTW bold statement about being in the top 2% in the world :P
    Posted by El_Mogul
    He maybe in the top 2% but im in the top 1% ;) i just havnt proven it yet!
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited April 2012
    Firstly (I'm sure you know this already) you need to remember that cash, MTT's, and STT's are all totally different. Being a winning MTT player is no guarantee that you'll be a winning cash player.

    Remember that you're at least 100bb deep (If you're sitting with a full stack and topping up when you drop below 100bb, that is), so we're playing a totally different range of hands to tournaments. Hands like Ax suited become more playable the deeper you are, as you're more likely to stack someone by coolering them with nut flush v weaker flush/straight/set. Whereas in a tournament, you probably fold A6s UTG with 20bb, in a cash game when you're sat several hundred bb's deep, idk about other cash players but I'm more than happy with raising A6s UTG if I'm not worried about being 3-bet out of the pot.

    Equally, other hands become "worse" as you get deeper, things like KT, A8o, while both good hands to shove 10bb's on the button unopened in a tournament, are both really awkward to play in a cash game, especially out of position.

    Also, in cash games, I'll take every single +EV spot I can find, as over time, we'll make money, it's that simple. Losing our stack doesn't matter as we can just reload. In a tournament, if we lose our stack, we're out, so it's not quite as simple as "Am I 52/48 favourite here? Shove!"

    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    I have been a successful S+G & MTT player since day 1, but a cash flamer. IMO if you are great @ one, is very hard to master other. So tempting to delve into cash with what we perceive as winning game.  But we lack the hand to hand dicipline and patience. Tournament, we are driving towards something, our goal is finite. Cash, we need a much deeper understanding of the game. If your a winning Tplayer, heck play to your strengths.  I think I'm in the best 2% in world lol, but I still know I'm not good enough to play cash :p in other words play to your strengths.  If you know your bleeding in cash hold off.
    Posted by AMYBR
    Partly agree with this. Generally, people find it more difficult to go from Tournaments to Cash than the other way around, and I think that's because the knowledge required for cash is applicable to most, if not all formats of Hold'em.

    The best cash players are most likely to be the best tournament and STT players as well. Look at the names of people who win the big tournaments on here, the majority are fairly good cash players as well as tournament players.

    It's definitely not impossible to be great at both.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,947
    edited April 2012
    It's really simple

    Improve your game, no one can do that for you
  • El_MogulEl_Mogul Member Posts: 158
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    It's really simple Improve your game, no one can do that for you
    Posted by rancid
    Good advice lol
  • salazarsalazar Member Posts: 330
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself...:
    In Response to Re: Just can't help myself... : Good advice lol
    Posted by El_Mogul

    Cash players are better, it's that simple. Tourney decisions are straight forward, especially later on. Cash decisions are often tough because of the amount of blinds you have.

    It's not surprising to hear a lot of players say 'I do well at tournies but lose a lot at cash'. 
    Reason, it's tougher and requires more thought and skill

    If you want to get good at cash, you just have to play and try to learn from your mistakes. Start out small, an amount you don't mind losing or you could just stick with what you know. There's no rule that says I must play cash games, if you like tournies and are good at them, then just play tournies
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