out of position

pod1

table been playing fast and loose for the 10 mins i been on it, what now (i think i chose wrong option)

pod1	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£19.33
teddy991	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£22.14
	Your hole cards	J J
GaryPlayer	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£12.44
Stew1	Fold
gte9943	Call		£0.60	£1.50	£8.34
TheCats86	Fold
pod1	Call		£0.50	£2.00	£18.83
teddy991	Fold
Flop
		J 10 6

Dudeskin8

Probably 3bet pre most of the time willing to get it in as they're both quite short for a cash game. 

Flop check raise.

pod1

could this not let them have a free card? what happened to making them pay for draws!!

rancid

bet

Die_hard

3bet/call all in pre.

Ch/(hope they bet lol)Raise all in as played.

Donk betting ok there too I'd say - pre-raiser may well go all in for you to call.

Dudeskin8

It depends how often they cbet, if they've been 'fast and loose' I presume someone will take a stab then when you C/R it looks like you have big draw on that board. 

Betting out is an option if they're really aggro and will see your bet as weak but most times think it's better to let them cbet as they could just fold to your donkbet if they have air. 

AMYBR

Once we flat w/ JJ oop we are basically saying we want to play a smaller pot esp vs these stack sizes which is ok.

Personally I 3bet to induce a shove from shorter stack.

But then we get this flop.  We are going to get called so light when we open.

Fire flop for vl vs drawing hands. 

Reassess turn if club falls.  But we should still go for value on flop regardless.

pod1

went down the "make them pay for their draw"line , kinda backfired lol

pod1	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£19.33
teddy991	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£22.14
	Your hole cards	J J
GaryPlayer	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£12.44
Stew1	Fold
gte9943	Call		£0.60	£1.50	£8.34
TheCats86	Fold
pod1	Call		£0.50	£2.00	£18.83
teddy991	Fold
Flop
		J 10 6
pod1	All-in		£18.83	£20.83	£0.00
GaryPlayer	All-in		£12.44	£33.27	£0.00
gte9943	Fold
pod1	Unmatched bet		£6.39	£26.88	£6.39
pod1	Show	J J
GaryPlayer	Show	A 2
Turn
		3
River
		Q
GaryPlayer	Win	Flush to the Ace	£25.53		£25.53

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Nex

Die_hard

(i think i chose wrong option)

It didn't really make much difference did it lol

rancid

u had outs ) no need for the overbet though

DOHHHHHHH

Anything but that!!! lol

pacificjoe

In Response to Re: out of position:

i hate your all in what do u expect to get called by ? with this all in your only getting called by a flush imo 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

i disagree players call with the ace or king of clubs even though its a donk call. Its 124/1 to flop the flush so if hes got it good luck to him and you still have outs to win the hand. In this case he was very unlucky imo

percival09

by shoving you'll still get called by worse but you're making so many hands fold that you're beating

by all means make them pay to draw but a shove is a bit extreme! shoving £18 into a £2 pot is bad play, if it was vs a super short stack then it'd be ok. a donk bet of around £1.70 sounds good to me, and you're obv gonna call any shove. Or another line you could take is c/r, but I prefer donking here

Dudeskin8

LOL why would you EVER do that ?

AMYBR

If the pot is bigger on flop is fine but firing 10x pot?

grantorino

3b and get it in pre

c/r flop

dont jam 6x pot without massive reads

pod1

well pacificjoe has got my thinking (please tell me your ivy, or durrr playing on sky ). chances of him having the flush is very small and the massive over bet looks so weak that even jc, qc  let alone the  k or a

the bit i dont understand is that a few people have said to 3 bet pre and to call/induce an allin with jj  giving me just 2 cards to improve my hand, yet now im ahead (apart from a very long shot) with 11 outs (ish) to improve, its not good to get my money in.

grantorino

In Response to Re: out of position:

well pacificjoe has got my thinking (please tell me your ivy, or durrr playing on sky ). chances of him having the flush is very small and the massive over bet looks so weak that even jc, qc  let alone the  k or a the bit i dont understand is that a few people have said to 3 bet pre and to call/induce an allin with jj  giving me just 2 cards to improve my hand, yet now im ahead (apart from a very long shot) with 11 outs (ish) to improve, its not good to get my money in.
Posted by pod1

dont think anyone said not to get your money in on flop, they said not to massively donk for 6x pot

if you get it in pre you wont need to improve a lot of the time

pod1

fair enough on your first point gt but i beg to differ on your 2nd. i may be wrong but getting stacks in pre i would say im behind with jj more times than im ahead.

grantorino

In Response to Re: out of position:

fair enough on your first point gt but i beg to differ on your 2nd. i may be wrong but getting stacks in pre i would say im behind with jj more times than im ahead.
Posted by pod1

Maybe, but you will have usually have enough equity to call a shove and they will flat your 3bet with worse lots. I dont really mind flatting pre too much, but against shortys Im usually bumping it up readless

pod1

ok, thanks