NL10 - should I call here

rancid

#504690915

oppo is very capable
Should I call and can I call
What about pre and flop lines

What's oppo range here

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Wengene	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£10.33
choc99	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£12.09
	Your hole cards	J 10
Robbo67	Fold
fowler0775	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£5.61
Batkin88	Raise		£0.35	£0.60	£9.65
rancid	Raise		£1.10	£1.70	£10.05
Wengene	Fold
choc99	Call		£1.00	£2.70	£11.09
fowler0775	Fold
Batkin88	Call		£0.75	£3.45	£8.90
Flop
		8 9 3
choc99	Check
Batkin88	Check
rancid	Bet		£2.59	£6.04	£7.46
choc99	Fold
Batkin88	All-in		£8.90	£14.94	£0.00
rancid	?

WHOAMI196

No! don't think your getting the right price tbh, unless he shows up with AA, or low flush then you are , i mean if he shows up with high flush, set, or qq, we only have around 25% chance to win the hand; not good, and i would think that's a large part of his shoving range there.

Sorry but i don't like how you played this hand at all, pre i think a call on the button is better than 3-betting the iso since the limper will surely call(fold is best play imo), as played flop is ok for you, since you were bluffing before and now have picked up some equity 3-way its prob best to slow down if your gonna c-bet make it a littler smaller imo, if the board was rainbow, then you can be more aggressive, so yea fold for me here m8, calling is not the worst play though.

EvilPingu

As played, this is quite close but I think probably a fold, just. We're calling another £6.31 to win £21.25, minus 7.5% of the pot up to £1.40 in rake.

Rake is £1.40 so we're calling £6.31 to win £19.85. Therefore we need 6.31/19.85 = 31.79% equity vs. Batkin's range to make this a profitable call over time. Whether you call or not here depends on what you think Batkin's range is and how much equity you have against that range. I probably gamble here, but I think whether or not you should be calling is a question for Pokerstove to answer.

Needing to win 31.79% of the time, hitting a straight is 2:1 (ish), so just over 33% - But we need to subtract a bit from that for the times we're against QQ and the opponent has 2 of our outs and the 2 Q's give our opponent a house redraw, the times we're against diamonds and 2 of our outs are no good and the opponent has diamond redraws even if we hit, the times we're against a set of 8's or 9's and our opponent has house redraws, and i think it just about becomes a fold as a result of that.

Pre-flop, I think peeling on the button is a million times better than 3-betting. JTo is a hand that plays really well vs. multiple opponents, and by 3-betting, you can take down the pot sometimes but most of the time, you're going to fold out one opponent and lose some of the value that JT has as a hand that plays well vs. multiple opponents - I'd rather be doing this with 72o.

salazar

Guy's probably got the over pair, therefore youre basically looking for the draw, think you've put in £4 and looks like 6 to call. Sums might be out, it's late. 

probably a fold but i would probably call as i like to see what they have too much (that's where all my money is going, knew i was doing something wrong lol

grantorino

checking back flop an option imo

I'd call it off if I bet, you will usually have around 10 outs

3bet pre ok imo, JTo not going to have that much value multiway w/o initiative.

YOUNG_GUN

I dont like 3 betting pre in this spot, at this level J10 isnt really a value hand and your just get in a tricky spots post flop like this uhless u hit a dream flop

Your getting the price to call IMO as long as they dont have ur outs, 30%

Problem is Batters probably does have 10s-AA, AK/AQsuited at worst. Call n reload

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

JTo not going to have that much value multiway w/o initiative.
Posted by grantorino

if limper is a fish, then flatting pre is best theres is loads of value there when we hit our hand, 3-betting is the worst option tbh

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : if limper is a fish, then flatting pre is best theres is loads of value there when we hit our hand, 3-betting is the worst option tbh
Posted by WHOAMI196

Don't get this comment and most others regarding peeling J10 here.
I am obviously not 3 betting J10 for value, I could have any hand as I am 3 betting versus a capable iso raise versus the limper

if I am iso 3 betting than surely it's better with a hand that flops well rarther than 84o as when called by fish or capable then I win more moniez having two options rather than just
hitting flop by peeling. Granted we could just play postion by peeling and check,check - c bet win moniez but mmmmmm

If we are 3 betting J10 here then surely there's more value by either hitting flop or not or not even seing a flop


Am I mad or just stone cold crazy here

O I'll post result once we have a good old debate )


@ GT - If I have a 3 bet value hand here - I am never checking back flop am I

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : Don't get this comment and most others regarding peeling J10 here. I am obviously not 3 betting J10 for value, I could have any hand as I am 3 betting versus a capable iso raise versus the limper if I am iso 3 betting than surely it's better with a hand that flops well rarther than 84o as when called by fish or capable then I win more moniez having two options rather than just hitting flop by peeling. Granted we could just play postion by peeling and check,check - c bet win moniez but mmmmmm If we are 3 betting J10 here then surely there's more value by either hitting flop or not or not even seing a flop Am I mad or just stone cold crazy here O I'll post result once we have a good old debate ) @ GT - If I have a 3 bet value hand here - I am never checking back flop am I
Posted by rancid

I think you are over-thinking situations tbh, and overplaying situations, 3-bet bluffing a hand like J10o on NL10 is asking for trouble as it has reverse implied odds when you get called and bluffing at these levels is a no go imo, calling in this situation is by far better than three betting because j10 has better implied odds in multi way pots, esp with fish in the hand that could pay you off when you hit big.

I would not get in the way of regs isolating the weaker players, even if there is value in stealing, you are just inflating the pot when really you should not be in it, ok ur play is not the worst in the world but just play solid imo, cant go wrong then.

In this spot doing it with 84 would be better, purely because its easy to fold when its obvious a plan has failed.

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : I think you are over-thinking situations tbh, and overplaying situations, 3-bet bluffing a hand like J10o on NL10 is asking for trouble as it has reverse implied odds when you get called and bluffing at these levels is a no go imo, calling in this situation is by far better than three betting because j10 has better implied odds in multi way pots, esp with fish in the hand that could pay you off when you hit big. I would not get in the way of regs isolating the weaker players, even if there is value in stealing, you are just inflating the pot when really you should not be in it, ok ur play is not the worst in the world but just play solid imo, cant go wrong then. In this spot doing it with 84 would be better, purely because its easy to fold when its obvious a plan has failed.
Posted by WHOAMI196

Bahhhh Humbug!

Solid is boring versus Regs ) I cooler you and you cooler me - pssssssssssssssssssssssh to that )
How are we supposed to win any money versus Regs by playing solid, surely we look for spots like this to exploit.

Maybe it's just a level !

Dudeskin8

@ Rancid - Has NL10 got that tough you have to start beating REGs to make money?

grantorino

I think you can go with any of the 3 options pre. Calling is going to be pretty marginal imo we dont play that well against either limper or batkins isolating range imo and bluffing postflop will probably be tricky 3 way. 3betting obv depends how many folds we get either pre or to our cbet on the flop, if its profitable though its prob as good as calling pre imo, JTo isnt really a strong enough hand that Im going to worry about turning it into a bluff

As for cbetting flop, well I wouldnt check TT or better unless I wasnt happy getting it in, but thats because we get called a ton on this board. I wouldnt always cbet AK etc here. I think you can cbet , but its not a great board to bluff and we can rep or improve on a lot of turn cards so I wouldnt always cbet

salazar

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

@ Rancid - Has NL10 got that tough you have to start beating REGs to make money?
Posted by Dudeskin8

NL10 is full of regs, you sit down with the same people day after day, all grinding 4-6 tables. I could list 20-30 right now. People assume it's going to be a cake walk but it's actually pretty tough considering the amount of money being played for

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : Bahhhh Humbug! Solid is boring versus Regs ) I cooler you and you cooler me - pssssssssssssssssssssssh to that ) How are we supposed to win any money versus Regs by playing solid, surely we look for spots like this to exploit. Maybe it's just a level !
Posted by rancid

haha fair enough

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : NL10 is full of regs, you sit down with the same people day after day, all grinding 4-6 tables. I could list 20-30 right now. People assume it's going to be a cake walk but it's actually pretty tough considering the amount of money being played for
Posted by salazar

Man, im tempted to wack £100 in my acc, and play this level (to which i have beaten in the past, on sky btw) to prove that it is not v hard, but i don't get much time to play at the levels i regularly play at, but i do have a long weekend off......tempted

salazar

I could probably get the 3 hottest girls into bed in the same night if i could get them all in same place, I don't go out much though. Wow tempted to go out one night to where they're all hanging out, then again I like going to the pub full of blokes watching the football (roll eyes)

Lets see your fantasic skills do the talking, no one wants to hear what you could do if you had the time

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

I could probably get the 3 hottest girls into bed in the same night if i could get them all in same place, I don't go out much though. Wow tempted to go out one night to where they're all hanging out, then again I like going to the pub full blokes watching the football (roll eyes) Lets see your fantasic skills do the talking, no one wants to hear what you could do if you had the time
Posted by salazar

I think i have to put my money where my mouth is dont i lol ok......ses GPC in a bit 

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

@ Rancid - Has NL10 got that tough you have to start beating REGs to make money?
Posted by Dudeskin8

lol hardly - but if we can beat Regs and the value then we crush - YES ! )

I mean seriously, I don't need to be told it's easier to get money from value than from REGS - )

The limp/call dead money is mine, so just get off my table !

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : I think i have to put my money where my mouth is dont i lol ok......ses GPC in a bit 
Posted by WHOAMI196

OMG what have I done, started a revolution or something )

YOUNG_GUN

+1 nl10 is easy even a fish like me @ cash can beat it, dont over think it! 

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here:

In Response to Re: NL10 - should I call here : lol hardly - but if we can beat Regs and the value then we crush - YES ! ) I mean seriously, I don't need to be told it's easier to get money from value than from REGS - ) The limp/call dead money is mine, so just get off my table !
Posted by rancid

Yeah naturally, but I'd reckon there's more value from the fish than REG's. Of course if you know the REG inside out then you can probably get similar from both but honestly why bother when others can hand it to you on a plate lol

rancid

Result, even though it doesn't matter

Agree obviously - play solid, play value
Sometimes we gotta play the player versus REG's otherwise it's just a bit tedious @NL10

But anyway J high is always good here but nh Battykins gg

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Wengene	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£10.33
choc99	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£12.09
	Your hole cards	J 10
Robbo67	Fold
fowler0775	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£5.61
Batkin88	Raise		£0.35	£0.60	£9.65
rancid	Raise		£1.10	£1.70	£10.05
Wengene	Fold
choc99	Call		£1.00	£2.70	£11.09
fowler0775	Fold
Batkin88	Call		£0.75	£3.45	£8.90
Flop
		8 9 3
choc99	Check
Batkin88	Check
rancid	Bet		£2.59	£6.04	£7.46
choc99	Fold
Batkin88	All-in		£8.90	£14.94	£0.00
rancid	Call		£6.31	£21.25	£1.15
Batkin88	Show	7 J
rancid	Show	J 10
Turn
		A
River
		4
Batkin88	Win	Flush to the Jack	£19.85		£19.85