Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts

Dazler · April 2012

Hi all i wanted to ask some advice about mtt placings and where i maybe going wrong! I do ok on here and have made more profit playing on mtts than any other format but generaly they are low in terms of number of players. Im always looking for that big win and think my mtt game is pretty good but for some reason and its kinda been doing my head in! I get quite deep in big ring games but have never cashed big on other sites bar 1 and that was 2nd on a 65k garanteed! ive put up a list of mtt placings and my position that ive come and it shows that there all quite consistant on where im going out and not making those big cashes. Ive usualy got the average chip stack or more then tend to go out at the last hurdle holding big hands.

I played in the thews at ten last week and didnt shove pre holding AK on the bubble and lost prob because i raised and they shoved over the top and i called against Q10off this could be where im going wrong?. I would love to get any advice or tips from successfull mtt players that play big ring games and maybe you might notice a pattern in my placings and be able to give me some advice of things i should consider when im at that point in the game.
Many thanks Dazler

Game	Date/Time	Buy-In	Entrants	Place	Points
Hold'em NL	2010/05/05 09:42 WET	freeroll	9000	597	15.45
Hold'em NL	2010/06/06 07:18 WET	USD 0.25	45	1	46.89
Hold'em NL	2010/07/02 13:06 WET	USD 0.25	90	11	19.99
Hold'em NL	2010/07/02 15:37 WET	USD 0.25	45	5	20.97
Hold'em NL	2010/07/08 18:40 WET	USD 2.00	6653	484	50.13
Hold'em NL	2010/07/10 17:20 WET	USD 1.00	3474	258	40.25
Hold'em NL	2010/07/16 20:57 WET	USD 0.02	990	119	12.44
Hold'em NL	2010/09/28 14:00 WET	USD 5.00	3322	224	66.24
Hold'em NL	2010/09/29 16:40 WET	USD 2.00	5351	187	72.33
Hold'em NL	2010/10/01 10:56 WET	USD 0.25	45	1	46.89
Hold'em NL	2010/10/01 17:20 WET	USD 1.00	4373	547	31.01
Hold'em NL	2010/10/01 17:40 WET	USD 4.00	1000	142	43.21
Hold'em NL	2010/10/01 22:00 WET	USD 2.50	6871	519	52.37
Hold'em NL	2010/10/02 21:40 WET	USD 2.00	5323	256	61.66
Hold'em NL	2010/10/02 23:00 WET	USD 1.00	5509	292	47.64
Hold'em NL	2010/10/03 04:20 WET	USD 1.00	3303	295	36.70
Hold'em NL	2010/10/05 19:45 WET	USD 2.00	4601	605	37.29
Hold'em NL	2010/10/06 12:54 WET	USD 0.25	90	9	22.10
Hold'em NL	2010/10/09 23:40 WET	USD 2.00	4037	67	104.96
Hold'em NL	2010/10/10 19:45 WET	USD 2.00	5069	178	72.16
Hold'em NL	2010/10/10 22:00 WET	USD 2.50	7505	350	66.65
Hold'em NL	2010/10/11 21:35 WET	USD 5.00	2742	318	50.51
Hold'em NL	2010/10/12 20:40 WET	USD 2.00	4457	439	43.08
Hold'em NL	2010/10/13 20:00 WET	USD 5.00	5977	218	90.07
Hold'em NL	2010/10/15 21:20 WET	USD 4.00	1000	15	132.96
Hold'em NL	2010/10/15 21:35 WET	USD 5.00	3096	90	100.89
Hold'em NL	2010/10/17 17:00 WET	USD 3.00	5255	107	105.95
Hold'em NL	2010/10/18 19:15 WET	USD 3.00	7109	93	132.18
Hold'em NL	2010/10/19 22:00 WET	USD 2.50	6330	28	216.41
Hold'em NL	2010/10/23 19:15 WET	USD 3.00	8485	498	62.41
Hold'em NL	2010/10/26 20:00 WET	USD 5.00	5885	370	68.60
Hold'em NL	2010/11/11 19:30 WET	USD 3.00	6915	539	54.15
Hold'em NL	2010/11/14 20:30 WET	USD 10.00	33293	770	132.22
Hold'em NL	2010/11/15 19:30 WET	USD 3.00	7183	957	41.42
Hold'em NL	2010/11/16 21:15 WET	USD 4.00	1000	44	77.63
Hold'em NL	2010/11/17 22:00 WET	USD 2.50	5926	177	83.28
Hold'em NL	2011/02/20 00:00 WET	USD 1.00	4414	540	31.36
Hold'em NL	2011/02/20 17:00 WET	USD 3.00	6434	465	56.24
Hold'em NL	2011/02/25 21:15 WET	USD 4.00	1000	140	43.52
Hold'em NL	2011/03/02 19:30 WET	USD 3.00	6486	727	45.16
Hold'em NL	2011/03/03 21:15 WET	USD 4.00	1000	39	82.46
Hold'em NL	2011/03/05 18:21 WET	USD 2.00	90	1	128.28
Hold'em NL	2011/03/06 23:00 WET	50FPP	2314	74	57.22
Hold'em NL	2011/03/07 00:00 WET	USD 1.00	4629	463	34.68
Hold'em NL	2011/03/08 12:45 WET	USD 2.00	1026	149	35.48
Hold'em NL	2011/03/08 13:45 WET	USD 2.00	500	33	52.63
Hold'em NL	2011/03/10 17:35 WET	20FPP	4886	484	24.06
Hold'em NL	2011/03/11 19:05 WET	20FPP	4544	679	19.59
Hold'em NL	2011/03/23 21:15 WET	USD 2.00	4941	364	49.82
Hold'em NL	2011/03/30 01:00 WET	USD 3.00	3319	226	57.94
Hold'em NL	2011/05/01 01:30 WET	USD 2.00	1644	166	42.55
Hold'em NL	2011/05/03 18:45 WET	USD 2.00	7656	648	46.48
Hold'em NL	2011/05/03 21:07 WET	USD 0.25	45	1	46.89
Hold'em NL	2011/05/03 22:45 WET	USD 1.00	1000	112	32.78
Hold'em NL	2011/05/04 21:45 WET	USD 5.00	2434	160	67.09
Hold'em NL	2011/05/05 15:30 WET	USD 2.00	2050	75	70.69
Hold'em NL	2011/05/13 19:30 WET	USD 3.00	5292	401	54.92
Hold'em NL	2011/05/25 05:00 WET	USD 2.00	653	26	67.76
Hold'em NL	2011/05/25 09:30 WET	USD 2.00	2125	168	48.09
Hold'em NL	2011/05/25 11:30 WET	USD 3.00	2293	54	98.52
Hold'em NL	2011/05/27 17:30 WET	USD 1.00	3984	324	38.46
Hold'em NL	2011/06/03 00:00 WET	USD 1.00	2507	59	71.50
Hold'em NL	2011/06/03 15:45 WET	USD 4.00	1000	44	77.63
Hold'em NL	2011/06/13 19:00 WET	USD 10.00	7502	411	85.91
Hold'em NL	2011/06/13 22:15 WET	USD 2.00	3430	419	38.69
Hold'em NL	2011/06/15 23:05 WET	20FPP	2971	33	71.86
Hold'em NL	2011/06/16 19:15 WET	USD 1.00	7623	422	46.62
Hold'em NL	2011/06/28 01:00 WET	USD 1.00	2190	171	39.26
Hold'em NL	2011/07/01 17:39 WET	USD 0.23	45	3	26.38
Hold'em NL	2011/07/10 10:30 WET	USD 5.00	1359	110	60.46
Hold'em NL	2011/08/03 00:15 WET	USD 1.00	5051	488	35.29
Hold'em NL	2011/08/03 02:45 WET	USD 2.00	1347	72	58.49
Hold'em NL	2011/08/19 22:00 WET	USD 2.50	3860	247	56.90
Hold'em NL	2011/08/20 00:15 WET	USD 1.00	5242	521	34.79
Hold'em NL	2011/08/21 18:30 WET	USD 10.00	30702	1042	109.14
Hold'em NL	2011/08/23 02:00 WET	freeroll	9438	1156	11.37
Hold'em NL	2011/09/21 06:30 WET	USD 2.00	1098	78	50.73
Hold'em NL	2011/09/21 13:05 WET	20FPP	2418	305	21.33
Hold'em NL	2011/10/14 17:40 WET	10FPP	4131	517	17.35
Hold'em NL	2011/10/15 10:21 WET	USD 0.02	990	3	78.36
Hold'em NL	2011/10/16 18:30 WET	USD 10.00	32021	1324	98.88
Hold'em NL	2011/10/17 00:15 WET	USD 1.00	4995	578	32.25
Hold'em NL	2011/10/24 02:45 WET	USD 2.00	1041	29	81.01
Hold'em NL	2011/10/28 00:15 WET	USD 1.00	5074	243	50.12
Hold'em NL	2011/10/28 06:00 WET	USD 3.00	2255	78	81.29
Hold'em NL	2011/11/03 01:45 WET	USD 2.00	1362	190	36.20
Hold'em NL	2011/11/17 03:13 WET	USD 0.91	180	12	41.23
Hold'em NL	2011/11/25 09:02 WET	USD 1.36	45	5	36.20
Hold'em NL	2011/11/26 03:15 WET	USD 2.00	500	66	37.22
Hold'em NL	2011/12/04 21:16 WET	USD 0.45	45	4	28.35
Hold'em NL	2012/04/10 19:00 WET	USD 10.00	9190	986	61.39
Hold'em NL	2012/04/11 01:30 WET	USD 2.00	4370	93	92.69

Lambert180 · April 2012

Jeez, you're getting very deep in alot of them considering the number of runners. I assume the points column is what you cashed for?

MTTs are high variance as you know even with 200-300 runners, so one's with 3000+ are ridiculously high variance and the list of results above is actually a pretty small sample size. But I would say that's a very nice set of results. Your big bink will come no doubt if you keep up what must clearly be a very strong MTT game, but tournies like this are just so high in variance.

Thews @ Ten thing - I dunno how many BBs you had with the AK but you wanna get it all in against QToff. Was it fear of bubbling that made you not shove? because you shouldn't let that affect your game (sometimes easier said than done) if you're rolled for the tourney.

GaryQQQ · April 2012

Lots of deep runs and a lack of outright wins indicates you're probably playing too tight at the sharp end. Ban yourself from checking the lobby and play for the win, be less risk averse. You'll bust out early more often, but you'll win more often too.

Look at the lobby of any of these and do the maths for yourself; if you played the same tournament 20 times with 1 win and 19 blanks you're miles better off than if you made a min-cash in all 20.

For example in a PS $2.50 180 man SnG (much smaller than most of those in your list) a win is worth $123.19, a min cash is worth $4.92. 20 x $4.92 = $98.40.

As you can see there's no value in making frequent min-cashes, occasional wins will bring in far more money in the long run.

BTW Food for thought; it's far easier to win 1/20 than it is to min-cash in 20/20.

Dazler · April 2012

In Response to Re: Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts:

Jeez, you're getting very deep in alot of them considering the number of runners. I assume the points column is what you cashed for? MTTs are high variance as you know even with 200-300 runners, so one's with 3000+ are ridiculously high variance and the list of results above is actually a pretty small sample size. But I would say that's a very nice set of results. Your big bink will come no doubt if you keep up what must clearly be a very strong MTT game, but tournies like this are just so high in variance. Thews @ Ten thing - I dunno how many BBs you had with the AK but you wanna get it all in against QToff. Was it fear of bubbling that made you not shove? because you shouldn't let that affect your game (sometimes easier said than done) if you're rolled for the tourney.
Posted by Lambert180

to be honest lambert im not sure if thats points earned or the cash ive made lol ill have to check that i should know really. I must be doing something wrong cos its always in the same positions compaired to the field so thats what i need to figure out so i can get past that point and final table for the big money. Ive kinda got a bit paranoid about it and think its the site not letting me get past that point but i know thats not true i hope not anyways lol. Its just annoying im getting so far and then going out at the end when it matters after about 6 hours of play. As you can see they are all small buy ins so maybe i should buy in bigger and go with a smaller field. I think the last one on the list i hit 2 pair on the flop and instead of shoving which at this stage maybe i should have, i raised and they hit st8 on turn and bam im out again. I think i need bigger balls and commit more so i have a massive lead rather than an average one so i can survive at least 3 races rather than 2.

In regards to the thews at 10 i think i had about 15-20 bb and raised it 4bb and big stack shoved on me so i had to call. And i think the reason i done it was because of fear of the bubble but i was prepared to be all in and kinda wanted it so in that thinking i may as well of shoved pre. This could be the whole in my game here. I had it in the totk last night when i just raised with AJ on the bb and sb called me with 63 i hit the A shove and they hit 2 pair on the flop. Should i be shoving more than raising with premium hands and hope for the best or am i correct in raising and seeing texture of the board then shoving i dont know. this is where i need help!

Dazler · April 2012

In Response to Re: Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts:

Lots of deep runs and a lack of outright wins indicates you're probably playing too tight at the sharp end. Ban yourself from checking the lobby and play for the win, be less risk averse. You'll bust out early more often, but you'll win more often too. Look at the lobby of any of these and do the maths for yourself; if you played the same tournament 20 times with 1 win and 19 blanks you're miles better off than if you made a min-cash in all 20. For example in a PS $2.50 180 man SnG (much smaller than most of those in your list) a win is worth $123.19, a min cash is worth $4.92. 20 x $4.92 = $98.40. As you can see there's no value in making frequent min-cashes, occasional wins will bring in far more money in the long run. BTW Food for thought; it's far easier to win 1/20 than it is to min-cash in 20/20.
Posted by GaryQQQ

good advice Gary i think your spot on here and i just got a bite the bullet at those crucial moments and play for the win. Because the FT payout is so big my head thinks i wanna stay in and prob do tighten up to much. And also on the odd occasion play too loose when i have a big stack and should tighten up then. I think ive gotten it all backwards in that respect.

YOUNG_GUN · April 2012

Agression is key

up the aggro , antes are probably hurting you or when others get aggressive your playing too tight

Dazler · April 2012

In Response to Re: Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts:

Agression is key up the aggro , antes are probably hurting you or when others get aggressive your playing too tight
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

yea i would consider myself quite aggressive anyways and do build up a good stack until the end when everyone else shoves and i lose races with the best hand going in. Antes are generally really big at the late stages and really do eat into you so you have to consider those too. I think im gonna take the uber aggressive approach late on and see how it goes as gary said better to go out early or win and take the advantage during the end to go on and win it.

TREMAYNE · April 2012

I have not see you play much but your exit hand in the totty yesterday suggests to me you play your hands to weak pre flop at the latter stages of a torney.
Dave

Dudeskin8 · April 2012

Best to post some exit hands where you think you played it badly as finishing positions don't really mean much without getting a feel for how you play.

I see a few posts up you mention raising 4x with 15-20bbs w/AK, this for me is MILES too big and basically turns your hand face up in that people know you can't fold so most likely won't shove over you light (which is what you want). This time he still did lol which is amazing in itself but long term you lose lots of value with this sizing.

Dazler · April 2012

In Response to Re: Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts:

Best to post some exit hands where you think you played it badly as finishing positions don't really mean much without getting a feel for how you play. I see a few posts up you mention raising 4x with 15-20bbs w/AK, this for me is MILES too big and basically turns your hand face up in that people know you can't fold so most likely won't shove over you light (which is what you want). This time he still did lol which is amazing in itself but long term you lose lots of value with this sizing.
Posted by Dudeskin8

yea that kinda was my plan lol but didnt work out i generaly dont 4x raise and do the 2x or 3x but i change like the wind i thought well he knows im strong and gonna be calling any shove so only hand i dont wanna see is pk As or pk Ks which i didnt expect too. If i get them to shove which they did every hand vertualy im in good shape for a double up and closer to the win if they fold i take down some nice sized blinds. sometimes im too tricky for my own good and get myself into trouble.

Dazler · April 2012

In Response to Re: Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts:

I have not see you play much but your exit hand in the totty yesterday suggests to me you play your hands to weak pre flop at the latter stages of a torney. Dave
Posted by TREMAYNE

yea that was a bad one and know the mistake i made there but i dont play like that often.

Dazler · April 2012

ok im playing hard ball in the mini open tonight i raising like a man and going for the win or bust not just to cash. Im in 1st place at the moment

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
lilfish17	Small blind		100.00	100.00	1657.50
Dazler	Big blind		200.00	300.00	7766.25
	Your hole cards	A K
wwfc982	Call		200.00	500.00	15230.00
BOATS_89	Fold
therocks27	Call		200.00	700.00	4915.00
TheCats86	Fold
lilfish17	Call		100.00	800.00	1557.50
Dazler	Raise		600.00	1400.00	7166.25
wwfc982	Call		600.00	2000.00	14630.00
therocks27	Call		600.00	2600.00	4315.00
lilfish17	All-in		1557.50	4157.50	0.00
Dazler	All-in		7166.25	11323.75	0.00
wwfc982	Fold
therocks27	All-in		4315.00	15638.75	0.00
Dazler	Unmatched bet		2851.25	12787.50	2851.25
lilfish17	Show	4 4
Dazler	Show	A K
therocks27	Show	6 8
Flop
		7 5 A
Turn
		J
River
		J
Dazler	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and Jacks	12787.50		15638.75

Dazler · April 2012

here are my 2 exit hands took a gamble on both but wanted to wiin it. Went out in 70th outta 388

1st hand coulda raised more than min pre but was a rag and out of position then had nut flush and st8 draw and plenty for another race if i need to. Maybe fold and wait until i have the nuts next time just decided to go with it on this occassion.

2nd hand i would never think someones calling a reraise pre with K8 off so flop was fantastic for me and worth shoving to double up back to a decent stack. I coulda checked it but after my origional reraise didnt see much point and could easily be representing big pk pair and have nut flush and 2 over cards to hit. But should i shove in this spot after his raise pre? i think yes after looking at it now.

This is why i think im too cautious at the tail end of mtts cos i get called with tat hands and they hit and wipe me out by uber loose callers getting lucky.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Sir_Funkay	Small blind		200.00	200.00	12320.25
Dazler	Big blind		400.00	600.00	17441.50
	Your hole cards	10 A
swordsyboy	Call		400.00	1000.00	7421.26
trigger129	Call		400.00	1400.00	18458.12
TheDart	Fold
Rosco15	Fold
Sir_Funkay	Call		200.00	1600.00	12120.25
Dazler	Raise		800.00	2400.00	16641.50
swordsyboy	Call		800.00	3200.00	6621.26
trigger129	Call		800.00	4000.00	17658.12
Sir_Funkay	Fold
Flop
		J K K
Dazler	Check
swordsyboy	All-in		6621.26	10621.26	0.00
trigger129	Fold
Dazler	Call		6621.26	17242.52	10020.24
Dazler	Show	10 A
swordsyboy	Show	10 K
Turn
		2
River
		2
swordsyboy	Win	Full House, Kings and 2s	17242.52		17242.52

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Dazler	Small blind		200.00	200.00	9820.24
swordsyboy	Big blind		400.00	600.00	16842.52
	Your hole cards	K A
trigger129	Fold
TheDart	Fold
Rosco15	Fold
Sir_Funkay	Raise		880.00	1480.00	11240.25
Dazler	Raise		1640.00	3120.00	8180.24
swordsyboy	Fold
Sir_Funkay	Call		960.00	4080.00	10280.25
Flop
		7 8 10
Dazler	All-in		8180.24	12260.24	0.00
Sir_Funkay	Call		8180.24	20440.48	2100.01
Dazler	Show	K A
Sir_Funkay	Show	K 8
Turn
		6
River
		Q
Sir_Funkay	Win	Pair of 8s	20440.48		22540.49

YOUNG_GUN · April 2012

Hand 1) ur raise pre makes no sense, u say u dont want to raise too much as rag ace so why bother? you raise for value in this spot a call would have been fine as would a bigger raise depending on the opponents. Post flop ez call ul

Hand 2) Pre flop ok, post flop wtf man! u have turned ur hand into a bluff and will defo lose longterm playing this way, especially as its a wet flop i prob jus check fold or bet 1800 and fold if u think ur villain will play straight foward.

ur saying most of your problem is getting bad beats late on , unfortunately thats always the way. just make sure that u arent blinding away

Dazler · April 2012

In Response to Re: Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts:

Hand 1) ur raise pre makes no sense, u say u dont want to raise too much as rag ace so why bother? you raise for value in this spot a call would have been fine as would a bigger raise depending on the opponents. Post flop ez call ul Hand 2) Pre flop ok, post flop wtf man! u have turned ur hand into a bluff and will defo lose longterm playing this way, especially as its a wet flop i prob jus check fold or bet 1800 and fold if u think ur villain will play straight foward. ur saying most of your problem is getting bad beats late on , unfortunately thats always the way. just make sure that u arent blinding away
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

yea shoulda just raised there maybe on the second hand but if the guy shoved on me would you fold after having half your stack in? Not sure i could in that spot! infact who in there right mind would call my shove unless you hold a big pk pair or set! as i couldnt put him on J9 for the st8 after reraise pre! and he could of been looking for the st8 draw flush draw or he may of binked 2 pair on the turn if i bet light so the shove put him on the spot and was a decent semi bluff to take it down.

All that said i was tryin stuff out on this torny and nearly paid off just not this time.

Dazler · June 2012

Hi all i posted this a while back saying i just cant win big on another site when it comes to big ring games i played 2 last night and one went on for about 8hrs, Its always the same at the end with my exit hands! The blinds are so big that any raise at this point means its gonna be for your torny life if you play past the flop and most at the table are good players and usualy have a decent hand if they raise or call AJ-AK or big pks, so i had KK raise flop and person to my right with same size stack flats, flop comes QJ8 all unsuited i shove all in and he calls for his torny life and knocks me out he had KQ off and hits trip Qs on the river, im at my wits end with it after playing for such a long time being massive favorite and only min cash when a couple of places more and i would of been in the $100 upwards. This still happens to me every time the other torny exit was i raise with pk pair hit set on flop raise and get shoved on by A4 off who hits a st8 on the flop. It never seems to be the big hands that knock me out but the debatable calls than im getting pre hitting silly.

I do enjoy them all the same and it is low stakes buy ins but should i just give up on this level buy in or up the ante and play bigger buy ins around the £11 mark as i may still go out and min cash but my ROI would at least be half decent for min cashing more so than the micros.

And when getting to the final 50-30 players should i losen up? and what range of hands rather than what i do and wait for AK AQ or big pks should i shove with?

These were my positions

1st mtt
Buy-In: $1.00/$0.10 USD
1994 players
Total Prize Pool: $1994.00 USD
Tournament started 2012/06/23 0:00:00 WET [2012/06/22 19:00:00 ET]

You finished the tournament in 31st place. USD 5.78 won

2nd mtt
Buy-In: $2.00/$0.20 USD
4255 players
Total Prize Pool: $8510.00 USD
Tournament started 2012/06/23 1:30:00 WET [2012/06/22 20:30:00 ET]

You finished the tournament in 18th place. USD 25.53 won

MattBates · June 2012

Dazler,

Full ring MTT is my game, I have been profitable for the last few years playing MTT's so thought I should give you some words of wisdom. Feel free to pm me if there is anything else I can do to help. Without knowing about your play in detail it makes it a bit harder to give advice but here it goes....

If you can get and maintain a decent stack in an MTT it gives you a much much better chance. With a larger stack (and good post flop play...this comes with experience) you can widen your range and pick up the dead money a lot more. If you are putting someone else to the test for their tournament life as opposed to you having to call off your chips in a all in situation the game is a lot easier.

The key is how you get your stack to this spot. I found watching other players (eg the top MTT players) improved my game a lot, especially in regards to positional play and 3 betting as these are key to increasing your stack.

In terms of what hands to play, I think you may need to widen your range to pick up the blinds/antes late on. By playing a few more hands it can increase your stack but also means you are more likely to get paid off with your big hands. Part of this will depend on the table dynamics. If a min bet takes down the blinds then widen your range, if it gets multi callers then you may need to tighten up and get bigger value from less hands.

The last thing is negotiating your way through a large field is difficult and you can play correctly but not win which is one of the joys and pains of the beast! You have to get around this by playing as many as possible and by constantly evaluating your play. Quite often the hand you go out with wasn't the problem but it was an earlier hand or hands that caused the exit hand.

Hope this helps

Matt

GELDY · June 2012

Hi Daz,

I've railed you a few times so I know you have the game to make it.

1000+ tournies can't help you with, but 100+ you should be able to crack.

thing I notice is that when you are down to the last table or so or so it becomes another game. Its almost as if the previous umpteen hours were irrelevant. In this new game it becomes very important to pick up the style of play of the others. Min raising in general works, but if there is a calling station you have to tighten up - but generally you have to play more hands than you would like or you get blinded out. After that it's all about getting your chips in good and keeping the fingers crossed.

Help at being succesfull at big ring mtts

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