Roller, FD facing flop m/r in 3b pot.

DOHHHHHHH

Opponent had been opening alot! I'd seen like Q8 shown down.

I'd 3b him twice from the blinds, neither time did he see my cards, the first time he called pre, and I cbet big on a 672ssx flop and he folded.

2nd time he folded to my 3b pre flop.

Looking back on the hand I feel I've made my cbet too small, think I should have cbet the draw bigger to try and get more folds.

How do I react to his small flop raise?

My thoughts at the time were that he was a pretty good player, so he shouldn't be raising a Q on this board?

I'm not sure how wide he peels 3 bets pre, so I'm really stuck here.

I think I should just call his flop raise? What do you think?

Tia.

Edit* Just remembered I played this hand v villain too. It's not a 3b pot, and not sure if any of this is relevant, other than to show he opens v wide.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
billtackle	Small blind		20.00	20.00	3975.00
paul10	Big blind		40.00	60.00	5622.50
	Your hole cards	8 A
ScottMo1	Fold
MattBates	Raise		120.00	180.00	7315.00
bar4004	Fold
DOHHHHHHH	Call		120.00	300.00	5030.00
billtackle	Fold
paul10	Fold
Flop
		A 6 4
MattBates	Bet		160.00	460.00	7155.00
DOHHHHHHH	Call		160.00	620.00	4870.00
Turn
		3
MattBates	Bet		340.00	960.00	6815.00
DOHHHHHHH	Call		340.00	1300.00	4530.00
River
		8
MattBates	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		1120.00	2420.00	3410.00
MattBates	Call		1120.00	3540.00	5695.00
DOHHHHHHH	Show	8 A
MattBates	Muck	10 8
DOHHHHHHH	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 8s	3540.00		6950.00

------------------------

The Hand..........

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bar4004	Small blind		40.00	40.00	3163.50
DOHHHHHHH	Big blind		80.00	120.00	7946.00
	Your hole cards	K 8
billtackle	Fold
paul10	Fold
ScottMo1	Fold
MattBates	Raise		240.00	360.00	6201.00
bar4004	Fold
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		640.00	1000.00	7306.00
MattBates	Call		480.00	1480.00	5721.00
Flop
		7 Q 5
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		880.00	2360.00	6426.00
MattBates	Raise		2000.00	4360.00	3721.00
DOHHHHHHH

Wacko90

Interesting hand doh. Tbh mate i think youve got yourself in a right pickle here when you didnt need to. 

1)This player is well known for being aggro, one-why are you 3 betting him pre with k8? why not wait for a better spot?

 

2) he has position on you if your going to 3 bet with that sort of hand at least do it when you have an advantage! 

3)If your going to 3 bet k8cc pre and fold on that flop then you shouldnt be playing it. Guess your next move depends on your reads on the villain. Is he capable of raising a weaker fd on that flop? You say he doesnt raise a q, why? What are you putting him on here? i think you have just enough to flat call the raise in this spot,, your still left with 5k if you miss hes almost certain to shove turn and you get away. If you hit you get paid in full i would assume. If you think hes raising weak then shove flop you might TID there. (Apologies for any idiotic comments)

Dudeskin8

3betting loose btn is fine obvz but K8s can be tricky in that you don't even flop the nut flush draw plus you don't have easy str8 possibilities. I'd much prefer like a JTs/78s where you can flop some big combo draws and hidden 2pairs or Axs where you know your draw is the best unlike here.  

Also like Wacko said much easier IP as he can take it away lots if he thinks your weak. 

He's put over a 3rd of his stack in so I doubt you have any FE, despite him having 46bbs behind if he folds, this just looks like he's going for value to me.

Don't like calling then folding turn as you really need to see both cards imo, he might also have something like the Ax clubs where you're really thin and he also ain't folding to flop shove

I probz just fold but maybe shove if you think he's crazy enough to raise/fold 1/3rd of his stack. 

percival09

fold K8 pre - 3b gives you reverse implied odds. I'd only ever do this vs a reg when you know how they play inside out and even then I don't think I'd do with k8

as played I think the cbet is fine, and I'd just shove now

I think hand 1 is played well

rusty762

Iln Response to Roller, FD facing flop m/r in 3b pot.:
looking forward to seeing the outcome of this one doh! Bit diff to assign range to what could just be a button steal, and also the way you have 3 bet him twice before from the blinds, and now a third time , he may just think (being aggro player) the time has come to fight back! And he has position to do it.
Of course, he may well have the hand too, like AcQ top pair, backdoor flush, or even Ac10c.
The thing is you do have the price to call the turn, and re-evaluate. I am not at all sure a 4 bet jam even gives you the right price judging by the effective stack available....so
Do you believe the villain is playing back at you, or has you crushed?

DOHHHHHHH

I thought suited Kx hands were sposed to be good to 3b? Blocker innit! Sigh, I get confused, people say different things.

If I make the 2nd nut flush, I'm really not gonna worry about him having the nuts!!!

Wacko I don't think he should raise stuff like AQ/KQ because it just folds out all my bluffs, and I only continue if I've got him beat. I'd expect him to just call with these kinda hands, then get it in on any turn. 

I take the point about doing it in position. I'm comfortable playing OOP though, having played tonnes of HU sngs lately I've got alot better at it. (Well I thought I had. ha)

Thanx for replies so far. 

I put it on the show thread yesterday, did anyone see if they showed it? If so, what part of the show?

LOL_RAISE

fold pre 80bb deep eff. with no antes oop theres just not much point

TommyD

I'd be folding pre mostly here FWIW, but that being said.

I think you can 3bet less and C-bet more.  He's never folding to you after opening the button, so let's just take the advantage pre and look to take it down later.

We're OOP which is obviously a headache now because he can do this so much with so many holdings.  I like to get a big stack early in a tourny (or register for another one) so after getting this deep into the hand I'm obviously not folding.  Also not calling just to hit a club.

I would either jam here or stop and go flop to turn and use the fact we are OOP in our favour.  More I think about it call then shove any turn is making me all tingly.  If he is this lag and calls as light in your other example, then let's give him a real confusing line.  We look much stronger and he seems to be in a 'getting it in' rhythm on the flop, break his rhythm.

gracie24

+1 for tommy's last offer

rancid

jam it in his eye -all in baby

obviously fold pre, but because u aggro monkey who likes to bash the other aggro money then just go with it

then sigh when you are called and lose, and walk around hitting yourself because you just aggro spewed 80bb )

rancid

In Response to Re: Roller, FD facing flop m/r in 3b pot.:

  We look much stronger and he seems to be in a 'getting it in' rhythm on the flop, break his rhythm.
Posted by TommyD

Loving this line ) shove any turn card, not for the weak hearted

MattBates

A good hand to analyse Doh!

I was playing a few tables at the time so cant remember how much I was opening. Regarding the earlier hand I had led the action and had a hero read that you had a missed flush draw, something like KQ clubs. I did play that hand fairly badly.

Regarding the main hand....

The fact you had 3 bet me 3 times in a short space of time/the fact that I had position and how deep we were were all factors in how i played it.

Thanks to all that have given their views, it is interesting to get others thoughts on the way the hand was played.

Finally, I didn't realise I was considered an aggro player......think I like the term and will have to use it to my advantage! (I will always have the goods when I bet now!)

DOHHHHHHH

Thanx for all replies, it was probably a silly idea to get involved with the best player on an otherwise really soft table, but I can't help myself I like to get stuck in and play..

fwiw, I shoved, was behind, and bricked. 

The pot was for quite a big early chip lead, would have had like 15k @ 50/100 on a table I felt I could dominate. 

Matt, the previous two 3 bets were 54ss (nice 6s 7s 2x flop!), and then AA, which u folded pre to

Live n learn, back to 10xbb poker pour moi!

grantorino

fold or jam imo, not enough behind to stop+go, he might fold sometimes when you hit also Jam and hit

prob dont 3bet pre at this stack depth