Table Selection

Pavillion

I am now venturing up to NL20 and many have said table selection is key.

What does that really mean? When I open the table and see a few regulars should I avoid? Or what else should I look for?

Your comments appreciated

scotty77

The regular multi-tabling players will be tougher opponents but will still be exploitable.

If they are playing 8-12 tables then they will be playing a style that is generally easy to combat if you are taking an interest in the games.

But yeah it is an important part of the game but I wouldn't really be that concerned at 20nl....just see how it goes and you'll soon get a feel of the better players at that level.

WHOAMI196

what scotty said really, table selection will come naturally to you when you get a feel for the players.

A good tip to use to play weaker players, is to sit at an empty table it draws the players in who like to sit and play, regs tend to go on waiting lists on already full tables, anyway gl m8.

ALFIE123

In Response to Table Selection:

I am now venturing up to NL20 and many have said table selection is key. What does that really mean? When I open the table and see a few regulars should I avoid? Or what else should I look for? Your comments appreciated
Posted by Pavillion

I have just started playing at your levels after big time falling out with DYMs. Been at the level for 2 weeks and playing normally 4 table only for about 2 hours each evening. I have already sussed out about 7 or 8 players who are generally dominating tables. I dont mind playing on their tables but i am wary of my position against them and also when i get into pots with them.
I have to say that i am really enjouing the cash tables and in particular the Action tables.

Fabraclass

In Response to Table Selection:

I am now venturing up to NL20 and many have said table selection is key. What does that really mean? When I open the table and see a few regulars should I avoid? Or what else should I look for? Your comments appreciated
Posted by Pavillion

Table selection is of paramount importance mate. You want to be playing on tables where you have a BIG EDGE over the table as a collective unit, otherwise the rake paid to the site will kill you.

Filters for table selection include avoiding multitablers, as 90% plus of the time they will be very good players, players you want to be avoiding playing even if you are a very good player yourself. A second filter is average pot size. You want to join tables with a high average pot size, however this is not always reliable.

When you first join a table, spend time getting a decent read on the other players to establish whether their will be value in playing this table before you open up another table. I would suggest not playing that many tables,

Weak players can be identified as being too loose, too tight, or too passive. These are the players you want too identify and play pots against.

Loose passive players will play too many hands and play them too passively. They may have little or no understanding of the importance of their position at the table.They can be identified, by playing around 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 hands dealt to them in 6 max,maybe more if your lucky. They call pre flop with speculative hands and do not re raise pre flop very often. You can exploit these player by having a tighter range of hands then them pre flop and bluffiing a lot of flops, and turns and rivers if an overcard to the flop arrives, almost everytime, when you hit and when you dont hit too stay pretty balanced, in particular if you have outs too improve, as little as an overcard or gutshot. If they call you all the way to the river more often then not, then bet predominately value hands, with some bluffs, too keep the non believers non believing.

Player who are too loose aggressive. These player raise and re raise too often pre flop, and once again may have little or no understanding of the importance of their position at the table, when doing so.These players can be exploited by playing a tighter range then them pre flop. 4 betting them a little lighter, and calling their 3 bets  with picture cards,particularly suited, when they 3 bet your opening raise from late position. Then when you hit the flop call their bets, and catch their bluffs as this type or player may bluff down the streets with a high frequency

Dont raise their bets looking for information. NEVER RAISE FOR INFORMATION.

If they are 3 betting you with around 20 % hands pre flop, then definitely look to 4 bet and get all the money in with JJ-AA and AK from any position on the table, Definitely 10 10 when they 3 bet your late position raise. Maybe even 99 and 88.

Players who are too tight, may play something like 10 to 16% or hands dealt to them pre flop in 6 max, and 3 bet maybe 3-5% of hands. You can take advantage of these players by raising their big blind when you are on the button or small blind with almost any two semi playable cards. However after the flop dont bluff their tighter range as much as loose passive players. as even though they are tight, they will have a stronger range of hands ot call your post flop bets with, and if they notice you are bluffing them a lot post flop ,can use their tight range to call you down to the river. If they only 3 bet you with JJ-AA and AK, THEN ONLY 4 bet these players with AA and KK maximum. You can set mine against this tight three betting range of hands, as long as you both have roughly 100 big blinds each. However no set no bet post flop, even on a board like 9 5 2. You may not have have as much of an edge against these players as looser players, given their tighness, however a decent edge non the less.

The reasons I give fairly precise percentages are because it is very important too be pretty precise in poker,where the edges are not that big, and because having pretty detailed information on the other players at your table is very important.

GL.

oynutter

Well you did ask--lol

 Nice blog there Fabraclass!

oynutter

 I look for the highest average pot at the low levels because it usually means there is at least one loonie there. But on the higher levels this can be very expensive as players are calling raises light to try and stack the loonie, so I would look for a table with a slightly high average pot, but not the highest--- flopps whoppa!

Pavillion

In Response to Re: Table Selection:

In Response to Table Selection : Table selection is of paramount importance mate. You want to be playing on tables where you have a BIG EDGE over the table as a collective unit, otherwise the rake paid to the site will kill you. Filters for table selection include avoiding multitablers, as 90% plus of the time they will be very good players, players you want to be avoiding playing even if you are a very good player yourself. A second filter is average pot size. You want to join tables with a high average pot size, however this is not always reliable. When you first join a table, spend time getting a decent read on the other players to establish whether their will be value in playing this table before you open up another table. I would suggest not playing that many tables, Weak players can be identified as being too loose, too tight, or too passive. These are the players you want too identify and play pots against. Loose passive players will play too many hands and play them too passively. They may have little or no understanding of the importance of their position at the table.They can be identified, by playing around 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 hands dealt to them in 6 max,maybe more if your lucky. They call pre flop with speculative hands and do not re raise pre plop very often. You can exploit these player by having a tighter range of hands then them pre flop and bluffiing a lot of flops, and turns and rivers if an overcard to the flop arrives, almost everytime, when you hit and when you dont hit too stay pretty balanced, in particular if you have outs too improve, as little as an overcard or gutshot. If they call you all the way to the river more often then not, then bet predominately value hands, with some bluffs, too keep the non believers non believing. Player who are too loose aggressive. These player raise and re raise too often pre flop, and once again may have little or no understanding of the importance of their position at the table, when doing so.These players can be exploited by playing a tighter range then them pre flop. 4 betting them a little lighter, and calling their 3 bets  with picture cards,particularly suited, when they 3 bet your opening raise from late position. Then when you hit the flop call their bets, and catch their bluffs as this type or player may bluff down the streets with a high frequency Dont raise their bets looking for information. NEVER RAISE FOR INFORMATION. If they are 3 betting you with around 20 % hands pre flop, then definitely look to 4 bet and get all the money in with JJ-AA and AK from any position on the table, Definitely 10 10 when they 3 bet your late position raise. Maybe even 99 and 88. Players who are too tight, may play something like 10 to 16% or hands dealt to them pre flop in 6 max, and 3 bet maybe 3-5% of hands. You can take advantage of these players by raising their big blind when you are on the button or small blind with almost any two semi playable cards. However after the flop dont bluff their tighter range as much as loose passive players. as even though they are tight, they will have a stronger range of hands ot call your post flop bets with, and if they notice you are bluffing them a lot post flop ,can use their tight range to call you down to the river. If they only 3 bet you with JJ-AA and AK, THEN ONLY 4 bet these players with AA and KK maximum. You can set mine against this tight three betting range of hands, as long as you both have roughly 100 big blinds each. However no set no bet post flop, even on a board like 9 5 2. You may not have have as much of an edge against these players as looser players, given their tighness, however a decent edge non the less. The reasons I give fairly precise percentages are because it is very important too be pretty precise in poker,where the edges are not that big, and because having pretty detailed information on the other players at your table is very important. GL.
Posted by Fabraclass

Thanks for the detailed report fabraclass

Thanks to all for input - I didnt know about the filters for table selection so gonna check them out

Spikelad

In Response to Re: Table Selection:

In Response to Table Selection : Table selection is of paramount importance mate. You want to be playing on tables where you have a BIG EDGE over the table as a collective unit, otherwise the rake paid to the site will kill you. Filters for table selection include avoiding multitablers, as 90% plus of the time they will be very good players, players you want to be avoiding playing even if you are a very good player yourself. A second filter is average pot size. You want to join tables with a high average pot size, however this is not always reliable. When you first join a table, spend time getting a decent read on the other players to establish whether their will be value in playing this table before you open up another table. I would suggest not playing that many tables, Weak players can be identified as being too loose, too tight, or too passive. These are the players you want too identify and play pots against. Loose passive players will play too many hands and play them too passively. They may have little or no understanding of the importance of their position at the table.They can be identified, by playing around 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 hands dealt to them in 6 max,maybe more if your lucky. They call pre flop with speculative hands and do not re raise pre plop very often. You can exploit these player by having a tighter range of hands then them pre flop and bluffiing a lot of flops, and turns and rivers if an overcard to the flop arrives, almost everytime, when you hit and when you dont hit too stay pretty balanced, in particular if you have outs too improve, as little as an overcard or gutshot. If they call you all the way to the river more often then not, then bet predominately value hands, with some bluffs, too keep the non believers non believing. Player who are too loose aggressive. These player raise and re raise too often pre flop, and once again may have little or no understanding of the importance of their position at the table, when doing so.These players can be exploited by playing a tighter range then them pre flop. 4 betting them a little lighter, and calling their 3 bets  with picture cards,particularly suited, when they 3 bet your opening raise from late position. Then when you hit the flop call their bets, and catch their bluffs as this type or player may bluff down the streets with a high frequency Dont raise their bets looking for information. NEVER RAISE FOR INFORMATION. If they are 3 betting you with around 20 % hands pre flop, then definitely look to 4 bet and get all the money in with JJ-AA and AK from any position on the table, Definitely 10 10 when they 3 bet your late position raise. Maybe even 99 and 88. Players who are too tight, may play something like 10 to 16% or hands dealt to them pre flop in 6 max, and 3 bet maybe 3-5% of hands. You can take advantage of these players by raising their big blind when you are on the button or small blind with almost any two semi playable cards. However after the flop dont bluff their tighter range as much as loose passive players. as even though they are tight, they will have a stronger range of hands ot call your post flop bets with, and if they notice you are bluffing them a lot post flop ,can use their tight range to call you down to the river. If they only 3 bet you with JJ-AA and AK, THEN ONLY 4 bet these players with AA and KK maximum. You can set mine against this tight three betting range of hands, as long as you both have roughly 100 big blinds each. However no set no bet post flop, even on a board like 9 5 2. You may not have have as much of an edge against these players as looser players, given their tighness, however a decent edge non the less. The reasons I give fairly precise percentages are because it is very important too be pretty precise in poker,where the edges are not that big, and because having pretty detailed information on the other players at your table is very important. GL.
Posted by Fabraclass

Now that is what i call an answer to a question,excellent reply mate.

Fabraclass

In Response to Re: Table Selection:

In Response to Re: Table Selection : Now that is what i call an answer to a question,excellent reply mate.
Posted by Spikelad

Thanks mate

Its a topic i feel strongly about, had some time on my hands Wanted to provide alot of information, that I taught would be very valuable for people to keep in mind. Sometimes  the impression is given that with basic skills, you can make money at poker, because their are so many recreational players. Strict table selection and a very good knowledge of the game are required.Because the reality  which is not emphasised enough by some people, is that you require a big edge over the other players or player you are playing against to be profitable.

Win rates are falling and therefore table selection is becoming more and more important.It is becoming more and more difficult to be profitable with systematic, auto pilot poker while multi tabling large numbers of tables It may become even more difficult as the years go on.If somebody is struggling to be profitable I would suggest perhaps scaling back the number of tables their playing, try and be more opponent specific in your plays, and definitely to be  more strict when it comes to table selection.

GL mate.

_ARAZI_

In Response to Re: Table Selection:

In Response to Re: Table Selection : Thanks mate Its a topic i feel strongly about, had some time on my hands Wanted to provide alot of information, that I taught would be very valuable for people to keep in mind. Sometimes  the impression is given that with basic skills, you can make money at poker, because their are so many recreational players. Strict table selection and a very good knowledge of the game are required.Because the reality  which is not emphasised enough by some people, is that you require a big edge over the other players or player you are playing against to be profitable. Win rates are falling and therefore table selection is becoming more and more important.It is becoming more and more difficult to be profitable with systematic, auto pilot poker while multi tabling large numbers of tables It may become even more difficult as the years go on.If somebody is struggling to be profitable I would suggest perhaps scaling back the number of tables their playing, try and be more opponent specific in your plays, and definitely to be  more strict when it comes to table selection. GL mate.
Posted by Fabraclass

Pure class from you as normal mate.

That reply you gave is pure gold and i will be trying to take onboard all of it.

Thanks again.

Daz.


Btw mate.

You ever thought about starting your own blogg on here ?

I for one would follow it 100%

Fabraclass

In Response to Re: Table Selection:

In Response to Re: Table Selection : Pure class from you as normal mate. That reply you gave is pure gold and i will be trying to take onboard all of it. Thanks again. Daz. Btw mate. You ever thought about starting your own blogg on here ? I for one would follow it 100%
Posted by _ARAZI_

Thanks Daz.

I don't think I would start a blog, to be honest Daz. But I will keep an eye on the forum. And if I feel their is a topic where I feel I can provide some decent input, I will mate. I get criticised sometimes, for strict table selection, but it has made a big difference to my result's in cash, and to be honest it does not bother me, as it is just common sense, especially with the standard of play online. Their should be no guilt in leaving a table if you think it is the optimal time for you to leave, ahead or behind.

GL.

Talon

 A truly excellent reply already received on this thread by fabraclass. This leaves very little to add.

 But i will put in a small debate about one aspect that he raised in his post.

 Although he accepted that the ave pot size is not always reliable, he has said that you should join a table with a high ave pot size. For me the concept of ave pot shows the general trend of the table and you should be wishing to play on a table that is the opposite of your particular game.High ave pot shows a looser table and is one that you would want to join if you have a tighter playing style. However if your particular playing style is on the loose aggressive end then you would want to be playing on a table that has a lower average pot size indicating tighter players.This would allow you the opportunity to push players around and take down lots of easy pots.

 So basically my point is to join a table that not only you have an edge on but also have a contrary style to.