Heads Up Sit & Go Advice

Hotwheals

I was just wondering how many games out of 100 does the average player seem acceptable in heads up sit & go's. I know if you win 53 games out of 100 then you are in profit but what do you lot deem acceptable beofre moving up the levels. At the present time i am playing £2:10 games.

Lambert180

If you're winning 55+ out of 100, then that's really good at HU SnGs. The winning from these games comes from playing ALOT of them. If you're winning 55% of your games, then you're doing very well. Just remember that if you've won 55/100 that's not enought to know you're really good enough to win 55% of games.

There's alot of variance involved so get 1000 games in before you start considering yourself to being a winning player long term.

Hotwheals

Ive already played 1,000 and i won 610 which is obviously 61% but i wasnt sure that, that was that good

Lambert180

That is VERY good but in fairness, you'll find it almost impossible to keep that up.

Hotwheals

so you think 600/400 is almost impossible to keep up

Lambert180

Pretty much yes, a 61% win-rate is VERY high for HU games because of the high level of variance involved in HU.

A very good ROI (return on investment) for HU games is 5% so for £1.05 games, a very good player would be making on average 5p per game, so if you played 1000 games, you'd make about £50.

So at the same stakes, you winning 61 out of 100, means you make about £17 profit over 100 games, which as you can see is about 3-4 times more than a very good player can expect to make.

I'm not saying you're doing bad, you're obviously doing good, but also running good, you can't keep your profit up this high long term.

GaryQQQ

Nice braggage, well played Wheals!

KKrippler

In Response to Re: Heads Up Sit & Go Advice:

Pretty much yes, a 61% win-rate is VERY high for HU games because of the high level of variance involved in HU. A very good ROI (return on investment) for HU games is 5% so for £1.05 games, a very good player would be making on average 5p per game, so if you played 1000 games, you'd make about £50. So at the same stakes, you winning 61 out of 100, means you make about £17 profit over 100 games, which as you can see is about 3-4 times more than a very good player can expect to make. I'm not saying you're doing bad, you're obviously doing good, but also running good, you can't keep your profit up this high long term.
Posted by Lambert180

I dont know about this, he has played a large sample size and maintained his ROI. I think you clearly have a solid SNG game, so dont think winning 600 out of a 1000 games is running +ev.

DOHHHHHHH

What ROI would 600 wins out of 1k games be w/5% rake?

Can anyone work it out? Is it 10%?

1.05 x 1k = 1050

600 x 2 =  1200

so 1% roi = every £10.50 he is up?

150/10.50 = 14.28% ROI?

Lambert180

Yeah I think you're about right Doh, hence me saying his current ROI is about 3 times bigger than expected for a very solid player. I refuse to believe anyone can keep a 15% ROI up long term at HU SnGs

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Heads Up Sit & Go Advice:

Yeah I think you're about right Doh, hence me saying his current ROI is about 3 times bigger than expected for a very solid player. I refuse to believe anyone can keep a 15% ROI up long term at HU SnGs
Posted by Lambert180

Username	Games Played	Av. Profit	Av. Stake	Av. ROI	Total Profit	Form	Ability /100	Network	Filter
??????????	5,282	$4	$14	23%	$18,707	-	N/A	SkyPoker	Heads Up SNG Only	x

Lambert180

Wow!

rob12345

In Response to Re: Heads Up Sit & Go Advice:

Yeah I think you're about right Doh, hence me saying his current ROI is about 3 times bigger than expected for a very solid player. I refuse to believe anyone can keep a 15% ROI up long term at HU SnGs
Posted by Lambert180

you deffo can

wason06

In Response to Re: Heads Up Sit & Go Advice:

Yeah I think you're about right Doh, hence me saying his current ROI is about 3 times bigger than expected for a very solid player. I refuse to believe anyone can keep a 15% ROI up long term at HU SnGs
Posted by Lambert180

It all depends on the structure. At the Hypers over a large sample size 15% ROI will be very very hard to achieve and only possible at the lowest levels. Whereas with the Reg Speed games 15% ROI is easily achievable. Looking at my stats for this year with 720 games played ranging from £5.25-£42 my ROI is 20.7%.Regarding the opening post, as stated above it does all depend of structure. Also something that needs to be taken into account is the bankroll management with regards to moving up levels. I would think at the £2.10 reg speed games a ROI of above 10% over 200+ games is a solid base to move up levels. Given the standard of opponents at the lower limits around 20 buyins will be ample in moving up.  
 

Hotwheals

Yes i only play reg speed games i feel theres too much pot luck in turbos and hypers. I also think what helps me is that i dont suffer tilt hardly ever, i can lose 10 games in a row which happend once but still felt good because i made sure my roll was big enough and right for the level.

Lambert180

Ah ok fair enough. You're completely right about the structure affecting things Wason. I just assumed he wasn't playing regulars cos they're horribly slow, and 15%+ would be very very hard at turbos and nigh on impossible at hypers.

GaryQQQ

If you can make 5% at hypers you're probably making as much money as somebody making say 15%+ at regular speed becase the games are so much quicker, you'll make 3x as much in C4P too.

Has anybody got any idea of the average game length of regular/hyper games?

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Heads Up Sit & Go Advice:

If you can make 5% at hypers you're probably making as much money as somebody making say 15%+ at regular speed becase the games are so much quicker, you'll make 3x as much in C4P too.
Posted by GaryQQQ

+1

This is why I played turbos and eventually hypers, because the difference in ROI is more than made up for by the volume of games you can play and the C4P

DOHHHHHHH

They seem alot longer when you're losing

sulk.

I'd say most games end @ 20/40 blinds. Some longer, some shorter (more shorter than longer)

Maybe 4 minutes and 46 seconds on avg

Unless your playing ellison, then you have to wait until he gets aces for him to commit, so you're looking more at 7/8 minutes. 

YOUNG_GUN

Turbos used to average 10 mins tops, generally alot less the lower stakes get done withing first few levels

regs take years or up to 20 mins , but i havent played many 

Hyper 3-4 mins average imo 

obv the quicker you play the higher variance