Pro players on the dole

JSTFLIPPIN

Just a general question...

Do pro players sign on? As the extra £50 or so it's small but it's something, just wondering

POKERTREV

In Response to Pro players on the dole:

Just a general question... Do pro players sign on? As the extra £50 or so it's small but it's something, just wondering
Posted by JSTFLIPPIN

Legally - Yes they are able too (Although Unlikely) as winnings from poker is not classed as an income or a job.

Overall, there are more losing players than winning players so its in the govenments interest NOT to charge income tax on winnings, otherwise they would have to pay out too much money to losing players for their losses.

The_Don90

As someone who signs on and plays poker as a hobby (well i dnt sign on im deemed unfit for work but works the same) you cannt sign on with i believe more than £1600 in your bank account.

Obviously in poker terms you can get around this by keeping money in your poker accounts.

I might be wrong about the figure of 1600 but it was that might have changed.

i now await my massive digs for admitting to be on the dole.

Dazler

Do you really think a professional poker player not an amature just making a few quid, could really be bothered to go all the way to the dole office, lie about what job searches they have been doing and posibly be done for fraud for not declaring a large amount of money in there bank account all for the sake of £50! they could make that in half an hour of play. So no a professional would not for the most.

POKERTREV

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

As someone who signs on and plays poker as a hobby (well i dnt sign on im deemed unfit for work but works the same) you cannt sign on with i believe more than £1600 in your bank account. Obviously in poker terms you can get around this by keeping money in your poker accounts. I might be wrong about the figure of 1600 but it was that might have changed. i now await my massive digs for admitting to be on the dole.
Posted by The_Don90

You are correct - not sure on the exact amounts, but if you have money in the bank or savings, you are expected to use this before you can make a claim, however, if you keep your winnings in your poker account or an international bank account then i'm sure this would not apply.

Anyways Mr Don......Nothing wrong with being on the dole sir............I'm sure we've all been there, including myself - being on the dole is a full time job for some peeps and the ones that really deserve it, such as yourself, don't seem to get all the benefits imo. 

JSTFLIPPIN

True it's very hard getting a job atm, I got very lucky as to what kindof work I do now, yeah I've heard about if you have a certain amount of savings then you get paid less etc, I think that's not very fair, I mean if someone's worked hard and saved a bit then lose their job and be told you won't get as much as others and will have to pay out of your savings I think that's quite rude tbh.

scotty77

I know a couple of people who play for a living but also sign on.   They are live players tho and I think they sign on mainly for the security of housing benefits etc than the actual 50 odd quid.

Will be harder to do as an online pro IMO as I think they now check bank accounts as well.

I think that the figure is 16k in the bank and then you aren't eligable for benefits.  1.6k seems like a very small amount to be unable to claim state aid.

But tbh I doubt many true poker pros sign on...there may be people who claim to be pro but aren't and sign on cos they have to....I can't see many poker pros taking the time out of their week for 50 odd quid,

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

I know a couple of people who play for a living but also sign on.   They are live players tho and I think they sign on mainly for the security of housing benefits etc than the actual 50 odd quid. Will be harder to do as an online pro IMO as I think they now check bank accounts as well. I think that the figure is 16k in the bank and then you aren't eligable for benefits.  1.6k seems like a very small amount to be unable to claim state aid. But tbh I doubt many true poker pros sign on...there may be people who claim to be pro but aren't and sign on cos they have to....I can't see many poker pros taking the time out of their week for 50 odd quid,
Posted by scotty77

16k might be correct scotty. last time i read it it was a 1 and a 6 and a few 0's cant mind if it was 2 or 3

As one other note, i only have to go down for medicals, but if your signing on ive got mates who sign on and none of them sign on before 11am, would any proper poker player be awake

rancid

I see that Jake Cody down the job centre the other day so.................things must be bad !

ACEGOONER

I can comment on this as until recently I was out of work and claiming JSA. If someone is claiming means tested JSA they cant have savings of more than £16k, which is fair enough. From £6k to £16k it gets tapered away. 

I never considered myself a pro just a recreational player who was full time and using cash for points as a way as earning a few quid on the side, whilst looking for a new job. In my opinion professional poker players should not be claiming state benefits even though they might not win any money at poker. 

Its more of a moral rather than legal issue. Poker players do not pay any tax or national insurance so why should they take money out of the system.

JSTFLIPPIN

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

I see that Jake Cody down the job centre the other day so.................things must be bad !
Posted by rancid

Sure ya did

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

I can comment on this as until recently I was out of work and claiming JSA. If someone is claiming means tested JSA they cant have savings of more than £16k, which is fair enough. From £6k to £16k it gets tapered away.  I never considered myself a pro just a recreational player who was full time and using cash for points as a way as earning a few quid on the side, whilst looking for a new job. In my opinion professional poker players should not be claiming state benefits even though they might not win any money at poker.  Its more of a moral rather than legal issue. Poker players do not pay any tax or national insurance so why should they take money out of the system.
Posted by ACEGOONER

This has been discussed many a time, and pro poker players do essentially pay taxes. They pay a very large amount of rake to Sky (or whatever site) and Sky have to pay tax on that, so Sky have worked that in when they calculate what rake to charge so the players are essentially paying tax, they just pay it to Sky and Sky pay it for them.

rancid

Do poker players have morale high grounds !

STOP PRESS!

1267

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

I know a couple of people who play for a living but also sign on.   They are live players tho and I think they sign on mainly for the security of housing benefits etc than the actual 50 odd quid. Will be harder to do as an online pro IMO as I think they now check bank accounts as well. I think that the figure is 16k in the bank and then you aren't eligable for benefits.  1.6k seems like a very small amount to be unable to claim state aid. But tbh I doubt many true poker pros sign on...there may be people who claim to be pro but aren't and sign on cos they have to....I can't see many poker pros taking the time out of their week for 50 odd quid,
Posted by scotty77

That's pretty disgusting really, and they should be reported,  espeically if they are not actively seeking any other job .

Pipunch

I'm by no means a pro but i'm on the dole since being made redundant. Nowt to be ashamed of - i've got a degree (almost), 5 A* A-Levels, have run my own business and have applied for over 600 jobs in the last 18 months. I've had less than 50 responses and 4 interviews.

At the moment i'm currently making more on Sky than i get in JSA but it's still nowhere near enough to live on unless you want to live like a pauper so i would say claim everything you can unless you can live a half decent (ie, not worrying that the beans you're buying are slightly more expensive than the next brand) life.

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole : This has been discussed many a time, and pro poker players do essentially pay taxes. They pay a very large amount of rake to Sky (or whatever site) and Sky have to pay tax on that, so Sky have worked that in when they calculate what rake to charge so the players are essentially paying tax, they just pay it to Sky and Sky pay it for them.
Posted by Lambert180

The rake is a charge for using the site, it is not a tax. The rake adds to sky pokers revenues and sky as a company are charged corporation tax on this, in no way can this be constituted as a personal tax such as income tax and in particular national insurance which builds up your right to state benefits. 

Its a very thin arguement to justify a poker pro claiming benefits. If they are any good they will have more than £16k in savings and its very hard to stash that under the matress. 

Someone like the don who claims esa is totally different, he is not a pro and has been assessed as being a valid claimant. I dont think he has more than 16k stashed under his matress, do you don??!!

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

I'm by no means a pro but i'm on the dole since being made redundant. Nowt to be ashamed of - i've got a degree (almost), 5 A* A-Levels, have run my own business and have applied for over 600 jobs in the last 18 months. I've had less than 50 responses and 4 interviews. At the moment i'm currently making more on Sky than i get in JSA but it's still nowhere near enough to live on unless you want to live like a pauper so i would say claim everything you can unless you can live a half decent (ie, not worrying that the beans you're buying are slightly more expensive than the next brand) life.
Posted by Pipunch

I was in exactly the same situation as you last year, you have every right to claim to help with living expenses whilst you are not working. I disclosed everything to the job centre except that I played poker full time, which is irrelevant because it does not count as having a job/receiving an income even if you do win. 

If by the grace of god I discovered that I could make more money through playing poker rather than working in the city as soon as I made my mind up that I should consider myself a pro, I would stop claiming benefits because I would not be between jobs or looking for work. Even then due to the mortgage it would be a very tough decision to make, something younger players who live at home dont have to worry about.  

Lambert180

If pro poker players stop playing or half their volume, it massively cuts a site's revenue which in turn massively reduces the amount of tax Sky have to pay.

All businesses will be building in the costs of tax to their rates, no different from if VAT increases, do the prices stay the same and the shop pay the extra VAT, no the price increases to cover it and the customer pays the increase.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole : The rake is a charge for using the site, it is not a tax. The rake adds to sky pokers revenues and sky as a company are charged corporation tax on this, in no way can this be constituted as a personal tax such as income tax and in particular national insurance which builds up your right to state benefits.  Its a very thin arguement to justify a poker pro claiming benefits. If they are any good they will have more than £16k in savings and its very hard to stash that under the matress.  Someone like the don who claims esa is totally different, he is not a pro and has been assessed as being a valid claimant. I dont think he has more than 16k stashed under his matress, do you don??!!
Posted by ACEGOONER

if i do can you find it for me please.

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Pro players on the dole:

If pro poker players stop playing or half their volume, it massively cuts a site's revenue which in turn massively reduces the amount of tax Sky have to pay. All businesses will be building in the costs of tax to their rates, no different from if VAT increases, do the prices stay the same and the shop pay the extra VAT, no the price increases to cover it and the customer pays the increase.
Posted by Lambert180

Whats company tax got to do with benefits?  I dont get the point your trying to make this thread is about poker and benefits, not company tax and vat which have nothing to do with it. 

profman15

HI all,
 
Interesting question.I don't have any qualms about people claiming unemployment benefit but isn't there a rule about 'actively searching' for employment. Make the effort but carry on playing if that's the law.
Thankfully i was forcibly retired from teaching for ill-health after a family tragedy took effect on an existing condition i had, unfortunately. However, snugly in my early 50's, i don't miss the 'grind' of teaching though at times, i did love the the job and the friends i made through it.

 Life goes on and you never get out of it alive so just get some balance and enjoy it by writing out a' bucket list' and trying to 'tick' them off. I abide by the law and always have. Do what's legally correct and what you also feel is correct. Simple....

I still have self-respect and have lots of hobbies and goals.........balance is the key. The life of a poker pro would be abhorrent to me. Yes, that occasional euphoric moment is wonderful but the downswings must affect you mentally. I've had depression brought on by tragedy and i wouldn't wish it on anyone. to trying to earn a living in that state would be nigh on impossible and probably brig on a downward spiral. The pressure must be crushing at times. 

Don't get me wrong...i'm loving poker but .....being a pro......never, never, never....i enjoy it too much!!

All the best and GL at the tables....