An interesting spot with QQ...

WHOAMI196

Not overly keen to show my hands here anymore seeing i am playing here quite often these days, and dont want to give free info away , but nevertheless i think this is an interesting hand to show.

The action,

I 3-bet a Reg on the sml blind, and decide just to 3x it, get called by a seemingly weak player in the BB, and the reg overcalls, its an action flop! i still like my hand here, but to protect it and gain max value from draws etc i make a chunky-ish c-bet, BB calls, and the REG shoves, Not sure on the math for me to call here, but i am almost certain that the reg is on a monster draw/combo draw, but unlikely a set imo(but i would not rule this out).

Problem is that i have a fish behind, and have no idea what the **** he has, so what would you guys do here....

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
WHOAMI196	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£49.75
BB	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£35.99
	Your hole cards	Q Q
xxxx	Fold
xxx	Fold
xx	Fold
REG	Raise		£1.50	£2.25	£60.75
WHOAMI196	Raise		£4.25	£6.50	£45.50
bb	Call		£4.00	£10.50	£31.99
REG	Call		£3.00	£13.50	£57.75
Flop
		5 J 9
WHOAMI196	Bet		£9.50	£23.00	£36.00
BB	Call		£9.50	£32.50	£22.49
REG	All-in		£57.75	£90.25	£0.00
WHOAMI196	???

rancid

It stinks but you gotta just get em in, but I say that a lot and  they show a set so.... meh

_ARAZI_

I fold there mate.

Not much chance of your hand improving and almost certainly behind to the reg without even mentioning that other player.

jh16

Ye, would say that's a tricky one. As you said think his range is more weighted towards a draw, JTs QTs, possibly 108 and 67/78 as well, but that purely depends on reads and the reg in question. 

Had you been 3-betting much, would he be 4betting JJ for value, especially with the added dead money in the pot? Just takes a hand your crushed by out the equation. But I guess you would be calling just hoping to be flipping or up against a naked nut flush possibl, which isn't the greatest of spots. but with the amount of money in the pot and the probable? Added value of the BB then would prob be a call. 

What do you think of the BB is he a fish or is he just flitting with A's not wanting everyone to fold pre?

Also what reads do you have on the reg, has he been playing solid only getting it in good or will he do it with a FD etc?

Also is he a thinking enough player to know that most of time he will have little FE with your bet size on this type of board with the action pre. Or does he think that you think he can get it in with pair plus FD as well as sets in that spot. Ok think I'm levelling myself. my head hurts. 

Also can you leave names in makes it more fun to try and guess what they have! :> or do ppl actually care having their names left in? 

oynutter

If you know reg is solid enough, you could put him on a set or q-10 s. he's not shoving a-j there, looks like he has you beat or is favorite to win the draw, you can't fold here on lower stakes, but at this level you can.

KAM99

Yeah, interesting hand. Have not played them its hard to say, but if he is a reg then yes the shove would fit with a draw more than a big made hand already. Could easy be something like AJ of spades or similar (IE pair and flush draw), or even just the flush draw, though I'd expect a bit stronger even as a semi bluff.

My other main interest though would definately be the call by the "seemingly weak player". He is short stacking, and on the flop he calls off a 1/3 of his stack. This stinks to me far more than the shove from the reg. Can't see him calling off a third of his stack and then not willing to put it all in on subsequent streets, so if not why would not be the one shoving? That normally sets off alarm bells for me unless he is a passive player that tends to play calling station.

So my read if I had to make one is you are ahead of the reg, but maybe behind to a fairly big made hand by the weaker player thats hit the flop well, but this is only if he is not passive generally. Kind of curious how it turned out, and suspect I'd find it difficult to get away from even with this nagging thought process.

grantorino

Call

If its not  a call own him bad on every other hand

Dudeskin8

Not sure you can get away from this hand just 100bb deep especially in a 3bet pot. 

You've 3bet pre for value and now have an overpair, yes the board is pretty wet but that makes it even more likely the REG guy can have a draw, it could be a crazy big draw like QTss but that would be unlucky as you have QQ. Oh and yes it could be a set but this deep I just don't think you can be worrying about that....

As for other player I wouldn't be too worried about him as he could easily have a AJ/KJ hand here or even a draw played really passive.

WHOAMI196

Thanks for you posts, some folds and calls in there,..Sorry for no real reads, but what you see is what you get here tbh, but here's more info if interested...

the fish, was simply just that,  it sucks to have a fish to my left, it just ruins the flow to my game, since i can play quite nitty i have to increase my nittiness lol, every open i made he called every singe time, when H/U im pretty sure he called most of ny c/bets and i pretty much gave the pot up at those points, never played him prior to session.

The REG, is not a well known regular to me, but have seen the name a lot, multi tables(did not check how many) and overall seems TAG ish, so not at all bad, and i think that can be the decider in situations like these.

Me, Well because i had the fish to my left (iwas playing 7tables) at this table i was not playing many hands and i would not be surprised if this was my first 3-bet at this table, and the session was like an hour in.

The hand did go to show down, and i will show it later, so how bout you guess what i did and guess the REGs hand, you will never guess the hand that the fish had!! so dont bother!

KAM99

Ok, with the extra info on the fish then I'm pretty much certainly calling the shove then, where I said before I might have been concerned with him calling off a 1/3 of his stack he had a big hand to do that.

As for the reg. I can't see him having an over PP as I'd have expected a 4bet pre to avoid a 3 way pot. I could see maybe doing this with 2 pair or even a set, but I see 2 pair as very unlikely with preflop action, and I'm not sure he would shove a set at this point. For me he is on a draw and semi bluffing. I think its likely a strong one though with maybe a pair and the draw like AJ spades or and even stronger one like Q10s or 810s, though be a bit surprised if he calls with that preflop even with postion. Would need to know if he migth do that from playing him. AQs or AKs is also definately possible shove. 

Either way thats my read some form of spade draw with either overs or pair.

AMYBR

You will be getting better than 3/1 on the £36 you have behind. 

Call.

oynutter

My guess is, you dwelled up and called in last second, but lost the hand to regs open straight/straight flush and flush draw, he just shoves because he wants no decision on the turn

WHOAMI196

Here is the hand guys, i folded, it was close! it was one of those spots i let the timer go down to zero and was auto mucked from the hand, interesting who wins though LOL.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
WHOAMI196	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£49.75
xx	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£35.99
	Your hole cards	Q Q
xxx	Fold
xxx	Fold
xxxx	Fold
REG	Raise		£1.50	£2.25	£60.75
WHOAMI196	Raise		£4.25	£6.50	£45.50
BB	Call		£4.00	£10.50	£31.99
REG	Call		£3.00	£13.50	£57.75
Flop
		5 J 9
WHOAMI196	Bet		£9.50	£23.00	£36.00
BB	Call		£9.50	£32.50	£22.49
REG	All-in		£57.75	£90.25	£0.00
WHOAMI196	Fold
BB	All-in		£22.49	£112.74	£0.00
REG	Unmatched bet		£25.76	£86.98	£25.76
BB	Show	7 5
REG	Show	K Q
Turn
		10
River
		Q
BB	Win	Flush to the Queen	£85.18		£85.18

1267

Tilts me so bad when theres no names.  dying to know which 2 players this was.  lol  i probably fold there.   (depending on which reg).

AMYBR

grim.  Bad fold

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: An interesting spot with QQ...:

Tilts me so bad when theres no names.  dying to know which 2 players this was.  lol  i probably fold there.   (depending on which reg).
Posted by 1267

LOL,  ok the REGs first initial letter starts with C, it has an X in the alias, also likes the x-box 360, hehe try to guess then lol.

When showing results i.e showing everyone's hole cards, the guys involved may not want their cards in the hole to be shown, just poker etiquette isn't it??

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: An interesting spot with QQ...:

grim.  Bad fold
Posted by AMYBR

WHAT!!!!!, BEST FOLD EVER, RESULTS ORIENTATED FTW HAHA

rancid

these spots are always a set or draw surely
So at best your flipping versus the combi draw, not really that bad a fold is it

versus two you would think set & draw

Can see why u would fold, trying to get into my head how  to fold these overpairs to be honest because oppo are constantly showing me sets on wet boards :S

AMYBR

In Response to Re: An interesting spot with QQ...:

these spots are always a set or draw surely So at best your flipping versus the combi draw, not really that bad a fold is it versus two you would think set & draw Can see why u would fold, trying to get into my head how  to fold these overpairs to be honest because oppo are constantly showing me sets on wet boards :S
Posted by rancid

Sat deeper I'd agree (and fold). 

As said getting better than 3/1 on money behind with op vs what are likely to be equity hands and yes perhaps sets.

Based on that am just never bfing here.

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: An interesting spot with QQ...:

these spots are always a set or draw surely So at best your flipping versus the combi draw, not really that bad a fold is it versus two you would think set & draw Can see why u would fold, trying to get into my head how  to fold these overpairs to be honest because oppo are constantly showing me sets on wet boards :S
Posted by rancid

At the time i put the REG on a monster draw, because he just wildly shoved, i felt he would think an amount to raise if he had a set, but absolutely plausible that he could have pocket fives there.

You say people seem to have sets on wet boards when you have an overpair, you just have to evaluate all the information given to you in those situations to make the correct decision. In my situation vs exact hand i was 55% dog,its not much and math wise it should be a call if i was H/U vs the REG, BUT i would be a overwhelming dog, if the REG had a set or even less unlikely 2 pair, then it would be a very bad call, so its safe to say he is never bluffing here. Because i did not know for sure wht the REG could do this with as he had the price just to call with his big draws, also with an unknown fish behind me still to act, i think my best play was to save money and fold, and as they say "money saved, is the same as money won".

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: An interesting spot with QQ...:

In Response to Re: An interesting spot with QQ... : Sat deeper I'd agree (and fold).  As said getting better than 3/1 on money behind with op vs what are likely to be equity hands and yes perhaps sets. Based on that am just never bfing here.
Posted by AMYBR

Its important to add m8, when evaluating the odds to call then i am only getting the price to call vs monster draws, but if the REG likely to have JJ, 99, 55 in his range when he shoves then we are never getting the price, so adding sets to his range makes me a roughly 75% dog, and therefore not getting the price, also what added to the pressure for me to fold was the fish behind, i did not have reads on him and had no idea what he had.