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Line check NL8 against reg.

DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
edited May 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Reg always sits in with full buy in, usually selective hands. Not played that often with him but he has been about at NL8 and NL4 a fair bit.

As for the hand, pre flop is standard.

On the flop, i c-bet knowing it is quite a scary flop. The betsize on the flop looks slightly small but i do bet this type of amount when i have a hand also, so if reg is aware of that, the betsize shouldnt be a tell.

Turn is where my doubt in the hand creeps in. I think if i bet the turn, i only get called by better, does this sound right? So i check to induce a worse diamond or to allow him to float, in other words keep worse hands in.

I check river to get to showdown but also let him bluff at it.

Should i have just kept the aggression up or am i ok to c/c it down? Do i fold the river after he double barrels the turn and river?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
DJWEST Small blind  £0.04 £0.04 £12.77
barnacle09 Big blind  £0.08 £0.12 £11.15
bignutz39 Big blind  £0.08 £0.20 £5.89
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
     
DrSharp Raise  £0.32 £0.52 £8.28
regCall  £0.32 £0.84 £6.51
bignutz39 Fold     
mitchpro02 Fold     
DJWEST Fold     
barnacle09 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 10
  • 2
  • 6
     
DrSharp Bet  £0.48 £1.32 £7.80
regCall  £0.48 £1.80 £6.03
Turn
   
  • 3
     
DrSharp Check     
regBet  £1.38 £3.18 £4.65
DrSharp Call  £1.38 £4.56 £6.42
River
   
  • 6
     
DrSharp Check     
regBet  £3.45 £8.01 £1.20
DrSharp ??

Comments

  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited May 2012
    Difficult spot, as with you C/C the turn he may feel its a good spot to pressure you with a bluff because you aren't happy with the size of diamond you have, which would be an accurate read. But its also very possible if you say he is playing pretty selective with his hands that he does have the ace or king of diamonds too.

    I think it comes down to this. If you call the turn here you HAVE to call the river when its not changed anything. So either you fold the turn or call the river, as nothing has changed at all in the hand. Ok, sure you could say call turn in case he was trying to bluff there and still fold river I guess, but not sure I overly like that line. So while I maybe beat I think I have to make a crying call wit the 4th nuts as played, even though I don't think he is often bluffing this spot with 4 to a flush out there and you C/C the turn.
  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop Member Posts: 3,795
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Line check NL8 against reg.:
    Difficult spot, as with you C/C the turn he may feel its a good spot to pressure you with a bluff because you aren't happy with the size of diamond you have, which would be an accurate read. But its also very possible if you say he is playing pretty selective with his hands that he does have the ace or king of diamonds too. I think it comes down to this. If you call the turn here you HAVE to call the river when its not changed anything. So either you fold the turn or call the river, as nothing has changed at all in the hand. Ok, sure you could say call turn in case he was trying to bluff there and still fold river I guess, but not sure I overly like that line. So while I maybe beat I think I have to make a crying call wit the 4th nuts as played, even though I don't think he is often bluffing this spot with 4 to a flush out there and you C/C the turn.
    Posted by KAM99
    He is losing to a few full houses too.

    If hes pretty tight I cant see him bluffing river. Fold for me.
  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Line check NL8 against reg.:
    In Response to Re: Line check NL8 against reg. : He is losing to a few full houses too. If hes pretty tight I cant see him bluffing river. Fold for me.
    Posted by donkeyplop
    Ah true, misread the board. Missed fact it was paired. Yes in that case to many hands beat him here. Fold I think even if its sucks doing it.
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2012
    Flop I would probably bet a little more or maybe even check, a tough flop to rep and if you get flatted a lot of turns will be tricky. 

    Turn is tricky because I'm not sure if the Jd or 9d would actually value bet here as they would have to put you on a pretty low middleing diamond and that seems pretty thin from their point of view (as they know it's rare you open pre with A8/A7/A5/A4 type hands at this level, maybe you do lol but that would require history), I guess they see could you're check as weak but if you had the Kd or Ad you might check as the board looks super scary for them and will encourage the oppo to bet. 

    Overall though I reckon worse diamonds will check behind here and hope for cheap showdown in a no need to bluff and no value to gain spot.

    There's also chance of sets but I'd say ANY set is raising 100% on that flop for value against flush so can sort of rule that out, plus if they had set on the turn I reckon they'd check behind hoping for pair up knowing any bet only gets called by flush.

    River after calling the turn probably should be call as well as apart from board pairing not much has changed (and above mentioned how FH is unlikely), but for me I can never see him betting worse here i.e. Jd/9d betting 75 of stack so I would fold but I would fold turn also. 
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited May 2012
    Pre-flop: You're UTG, plus there's someone who posted who I'd treat the same as limper, so I'd go a bit bigger than usual, idk what your standard raise is @ 8NL but I'd go to 40p or maybe 48p here. 

    Flop: If you're going to c-bet, fine but shut down if called unless the turn is an offsuit card that gives you top pair. I don't think a solid reg is ever going to be drawing to a Jack high flush or worse tbh.

    Turn: c/f for me. Villain will never bet a set here IMO, as he's never going to get called by worse, plus he'd probably raise flop. I don't like c/c here tbh, I think it's just a c/f against a reg @ 8NL.

    River: If you're going to c/c turn, you have to c/c river, paired board or not. Reason being that I think sets check back the turn as they have showdown value with absolutely no reason to bet (I hope people haven't started range merging @ 8NL or my advice is useless, lol). Also, I think a set raises that flop, and 33 folds on the flop too, so even though the board has paired, I think you have to call if you call on the turn, irrespective of the board pairing.

    I wouldn't be getting to the river in the first place, however, as I probably fold turn.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2012
    b/f turn
  • FabraclassFabraclass Member Posts: 117
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Line check NL8 against reg.:
    Reg always sits in with full buy in, usually selective hands. Not played that often with him but he has been about at NL8 and NL4 a fair bit. As for the hand, pre flop is standard. On the flop, i c-bet knowing it is quite a scary flop. The betsize on the flop looks slightly small but i do bet this type of amount when i have a hand also, so if reg is aware of that, the betsize shouldnt be a tell. Turn is where my doubt in the hand creeps in. I think if i bet the turn, i only get called by better, does this sound right? So i check to induce a worse diamond or to allow him to float, in other words keep worse hands in. I check river to get to showdown but also let him bluff at it. Should i have just kept the aggression up or am i ok to c/c it down? Do i fold the river after he double barrels the turn and river? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance DJWEST Small blind   £0.04 £0.04 £12.77 barnacle09 Big blind   £0.08 £0.12 £11.15 bignutz39 Big blind   £0.08 £0.20 £5.89   Your hole cards A Q       DrSharp Raise   £0.32 £0.52 £8.28 reg Call   £0.32 £0.84 £6.51 bignutz39 Fold         mitchpro02 Fold         DJWEST Fold         barnacle09 Fold         Flop     10 2 6       DrSharp Bet   £0.48 £1.32 £7.80 reg Call   £0.48 £1.80 £6.03 Turn     3       DrSharp Check         reg Bet   £1.38 £3.18 £4.65 DrSharp Call   £1.38 £4.56 £6.42 River     6       DrSharp Check         reg Bet   £3.45 £8.01 £1.20 DrSharp ??
    Posted by DrSharp

    In poker you want always want your range to be fairly balanced on every street. This will make it very difficult to for other players to exploit your game. When you bet flop, check behind flop, bet flop then check behind turn. bet flop and check call turn, you always want a degree of balance between bluffs/air and value The most optimal line here will depend on what type of player your are, and what type of player your opponent is.

    You raise form early positron and the opponent who is a reg flats calls from early position. I n general a good reg will have a range of basically pocket pairs, high suited broadway cards and maybe high suited connectors.

    If you are the type of player who will bluff the turn and river frequently to push a solid reg of a small flush on the river, which would essentially become a bluff catcher. Then I would recommend betting three streets to balance your range between bluffs and value bets.(Providing the board doesn't pair on the end). Meaning they will have a very difficult decision on the river given your river bluffing frequency and the odd s you are offering them.

    I like your line if you are not this type of player, for a number of reasons.

    1 He can bluff with pocket pairs with no diamond he might have called your flop bet with.

    2 Pot control. You prevent a player raising you on the turn and then betting the river. Resulting in your hand becoming pretty much a complete bluff catcher and leaving you vulnerable to being bluffed. Because you would have to fold on the river. unless you have a good read.

    3 You can balance you turn checking range between sets,air giving up, and strong diamonds. Sets where you could call 1 bet and probably gave to give up on the river unless you pair up for a full house or you have a very specific read that they will bluff twice in this situation.Air where you are giving up. And strong diamonds(such as queen  and jack) that you can call 1 and maybe two bets with the queen, as they could possible value bet the river with the jack of diamonds, as you pretty much will never have the ace or king of diamonds, given your line. You have underrepped your hand aswell. so certain players may be more likely to bluff you aswell. The board pairing on the end means they are unlikely to have a full house after betting the turn and river, or to be value betting the jack high flush. Therefore their value betting range is most likely an ace high or king high flush.

    I am big fan of the check call option on the turn with marginal hands out of position (punish those floaters). And checking behind turn, sometimes, in position with marginal hands, too catch bluff s on the river if flush draws miss. But you do want too charge draws on the turn aswell, so it is a balancing act, and player specific. I am definitely a big proponent of keeping pots under control post flop, out of position with marginal hands. Therefore making life easier for yourself.
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