Okay, I haven't read any of the other posts. I'd just shove it in pre-flop. I'm sure that's what many others have said, too. 17BB in your stack and 4BB in the middle. Nobody has shown any strength so your shove would be likely to get through a huge majority of the time and you'd add a significant amount to your stack when it does. But you see a flop 4-handed and hit top set on a monochrome 789 flop... Easy now, isn't it? Shove pre-flop every time. Posted by BorinLoner
According to better players than myself Borin, you have won a coconut mate... PS I thought the shove was barmy originally but i'm being persuaded...
Well, I've just read through most of the other posts and the two "mistakes" I think you're making are i) Massively over-estimating the chances of the limpers calling a shove - I'd expect a shove to get through here upwards of 80% of the time, and on those occasions when you're called you'll mostly be flipping anyway - and ii) Massively under-estimating the value of the dead money to your stack. Particularly in a DYM, an addition of 4BB to your stack will have a huge effect. They represent 23% of your stack and the 4BB in the middle here are pretty much there for you to take. Nobody else seems to want them.
I haven't read JohnConnor's DYM guide, though it seems to be very highly regarded. I would imagine that if he does advocate set-mining in the early stages, he means levels when you have perhaps 50-100BB effective stacks, meaning when the blinds are 10/20 or 20/40 if starting stacks are 2000. With blinds at 50/100, the short stacks have between 12BB and 15BB. This shouldn't really be considered to be the "early stages" of a tournament, DYM or SNG.
Well, I've just read through most of the other posts and the two "mistakes" I think you're making are i) Massively over-estimating the chances of the limpers calling a shove - I'd expect a shove to get through here upwards of 80% of the time, and on those occasions when you're called you'll mostly be flipping anyway - and ii) Massively under-estimating the value of the dead money to your stack. Particularly in a DYM, an addition of 4BB to your stack will have a huge effect. They represent 23% of your stack and the 4BB in the middle here are pretty much there for you to take. Nobody else seems to want them. I haven't read JohnConnor's DYM guide, though it seems to be very highly regarded. I would imagine that if he does advocate set-mining in the early stages, he means levels when you have perhaps 50-100BB effective stacks, meaning when the blinds are 10/20 or 20/40 if starting stacks are 2000. With blinds at 50/100, the short stacks have between 12BB and 15BB. This shouldn't really be considered to be the "early stages" of a tournament, DYM or SNG. Posted by BorinLoner
Hi Borin I think you make some very good point. Some of my assumptions did not follow John's ABC(partly because i saw the level as first level of middle stage when it is atually second level) but its certainly got people thinking hasn't it and i've enjoyed the banter as well as the 'pinging' back and forth. I can see my game is improving as i'm now starting to follow the logic in the solutions/opinions given. Can't be bad then, eh?
JUST WAIT UNTIL I GET POCKET NINES IN MY NEXT DYM!!! .......
Comments
PS I thought the shove was barmy originally but i'm being persuaded...
I haven't read JohnConnor's DYM guide, though it seems to be very highly regarded. I would imagine that if he does advocate set-mining in the early stages, he means levels when you have perhaps 50-100BB effective stacks, meaning when the blinds are 10/20 or 20/40 if starting stacks are 2000. With blinds at 50/100, the short stacks have between 12BB and 15BB. This shouldn't really be considered to be the "early stages" of a tournament, DYM or SNG.
I think you make some very good point. Some of my assumptions did not follow John's ABC(partly because i saw the level as first level of middle stage when it is atually second level) but its certainly got people thinking hasn't it and i've enjoyed the banter as well as the 'pinging' back and forth. I can see my game is improving as i'm now starting to follow the logic in the solutions/opinions given. Can't be bad then, eh?
JUST WAIT UNTIL I GET POCKET NINES IN MY NEXT DYM!!! .......
or just open shove flop