Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?

foldUfairy

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Maj	Small blind		150.00	150.00	10215.00
foldUfairy	Big blind		300.00	450.00	11471.00
	Your hole cards	K A
moods	Call		300.00	750.00	16315.04
mickjenn1	Fold
bigmojo	Call		300.00	1050.00	3535.00
grantos888	Call		300.00	1350.00	4102.50
Maj	Fold
foldUfairy	Raise		2100.00	3450.00	9371.00
moods	Call		2100.00	5550.00	14215.04
bigmojo	Call		2100.00	7650.00	1435.00
grantos888	Fold
Flop
		A 5 7
foldUfairy	Bet		3900.00	11550.00	5471.00
moods	Raise		7800.00	19350.00	6415.04
bigmojo	Fold
foldUfairy	All-in		5471.00	24821.00	0.00
moods	Call		1571.00	26392.00	4844.04
foldUfairy	Show	K A
moods	Show	7 7
Turn
		9
River
		5
moods	Win	Full House, 7s and 5s	26392.00		31236.04

This was my exit hand in the mini primo, just wondering do i have too many BB's here to just shove pre and take the dead money?

I think i had just under 40x.

This got me thinking what is the general cutoff when jamming pre to take a multi limped pot, for example jamming 100x to take down say 7x is excessive.

Anyway at the time i felt i had too much to just jam and this could definatley be a mistake, so i'd just like to hear some other opinions and thoughts as to what you would do in this situation and what you feel would be to much ect.

Thanks.

The_Don90

Yeah once u bet as much pre and on flop you have to go broke. I might go for the full shove squeeze. Opponents put way too much into set mine. WP

AMYBR

Nice screen name.

This is my least fav type of poker tbh :P

Playing vs people who can only win if the deck smacks them.  I have 54bbs I may aswell just limp with 7's.  Oh well some guy has made a massive raise i'll just peel to c/f for another 6bbs despite two ppl already called the massive bet and I have 2 people left to act..... Oh theres my 7 I played this hand great lolz

I think if your going to make it that big you may aswell just ship it.

I'd prob make it 1100 tbh tho.  We dont have to live or die by this hand (well we do once we make it 7x).  Seems from the action you get you must know worse would call, generating massive pot on flop that we'll often brick.  Yeah if this was the dynamic at table I def ship tbh.  tighter game I make it 1100ish.

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

Nice screen name. This is my least fav type of poker tbh :P Playing vs people who can only win if the deck smacks them.  I have 54bbs I may aswell just limp with 7's.  Oh well some guy has made a massive raise i'll just peel to c/f for another 6bbs despite two ppl already called the massive bet and I have 2 people left to act..... Oh theres my 7 I played this hand great lolz I think if your going to make it that big you may aswell just ship it. I'd prob make it 1100 tbh tho.  We dont have to live or die by this hand (well we do once we make it 7x).  Seems from the action you get you must know worse would call, generating massive pot on flop that we'll often brick.  Yeah if this was the dynamic at table I def ship tbh.  tighter game I make it 1100ish.
Posted by AMYBR

Haha ye bad play for sure, but these bad plays make for easy money as he misses there most of the time and cbet takes it down.

I hadn't been on this table for long to be honest, so i thought this would have taken it down pre.

I didn't really expect the limp call for this much more as we were towards the end of the tourny.

So both of you would be leaning towards shipping it pre, but what amount would you consider too much too ship in this spot? Thanks.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Haha ye bad play for sure, but these bad plays make for easy money as he misses there most of the time and cbet takes it down. I hadn't been on this table for long to be honest, so i thought this would have taken it down pre. I didn't really expect the limp call for this much more as we were towards the end of the tourny. So both of you would be leaning towards shipping it pre, but what amount would you consider too much too ship in this spot? Thanks.
Posted by foldUfairy

Being honest i think nothing is too much. As long as you do it with a balanced range in this spot. E.g. youll also shove 72o here and AA. That allows for most impac and a big payday when we do have it. Even if called we're probably live in those other times

Id say particular because your OOP makes it even more towards  a really big squeeze. As you said you havent been here for long so that makes it harder to judge.

Just balance range and shove.

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Being honest i think nothing is too much. As long as you do it with a balanced range in this spot. E.g. youll also shove 72o here and AA. That allows for most impac and a big payday when we do have it. Even if called we're probably live in those other times Id say particular because your OOP makes it even more towards  a really big squeeze. As you said you havent been here for long so that makes it harder to judge. Just balance range and shove.
Posted by The_Don90

Ye, i definately agree i'm oop and i don't know if people have just been limp calling most pots.

Defo profitable to just be shoving any two here upon reflection. Thanks.

EvilPingu

I think shove is fine. We're OOP and we're going to miss the flop a lot of the time and waste several BB's, so just ship it pre.

Batkin88

I don't like shoving pre as your kinda turning your hand face up, you ain't going to shove with AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 so the sevens are probably thinking there ahead of you here anyway (Although his limp pre makes me think he doesn't really know or care what you have) I would raise to around 1k to 1.2k ish this allows your to c-bet comfortably but as the flop comes down you are prob still going broke here but there will be times you get away as the limp call smells like a pocket pair. But the majority of the time if you hit or miss you make the c-bet and get the fold from PP'S anyway.

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

I don't like shoving pre as your kinda turning your hand face up, you ain't going to shove with AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 so the sevens are probably thinking there ahead of you here anyway (Although his limp pre makes me think he doesn't really know or care what you have) I would raise to around 1k to 1.2k ish this allows your to c-bet comfortably but as the flop comes down you are prob still going broke here but there will be times you get away as the limp call smells like a pocket pair. But the majority of the time if you hit or miss you make the c-bet and get the fold from PP'S anyway.
Posted by Batkin88

Yes to a thinking player your probably right, but like the don said if i shove any two here then i have to balance my range, so i would be shoving all the above mentioned hands aswell as worse.

I don't really like raising to 1k or 1.2k as i feel the whole table will then limp call and i'm oop vs a very wide range.

Thanks.

AMYBR

I may well ship QQ+ here as a bit of a merge.  There are some shallower stacks that will snap AJetc & isolate some flips.

I think the raise c-bet line is ridic kamikaze, as if we get even 1 caller our cbet will be committing in any case.  1 caller generates a pot of 5500 with 9000 back.  2 callers we have pot back effectively.  Pretty much why i'd make it 1100 or ship.

Batkin88

If you raise and get 1 caller at 1.1 k it is a 2.8k pot not 5.5 so c-betting would be viable and profitable if you jam alot of players will put u on this exact hand in a tournament

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

I may well ship QQ+ here as a bit of a merge.  There are some shallower stacks that will snap AJetc & isolate some flips. I think the raise c-bet line is ridic kamikaze, as if we get even 1 caller our cbet will be committing in any case.  1 caller generates a pot of 5500 with 9000 back.  2 callers we have pot back effectively.  Pretty much why i'd make it 1100 or ship.
Posted by AMYBR

The more i think about it and from what i have read here i do hate my line.

I don't really think the more passive route of raising to 1100 and letting everyone limp call is for me tho either, saying that it does allow you to get away for cheap.

Overall i would definatley be shipping in this spot next time.

Thanks.

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

If you raise and get 1 caller at 1.1 k it is a 2.8k pot not 5.5 so c-betting would be viable and profitable if you jam alot of players will put u on this exact hand in a tournament
Posted by Batkin88

Meant as played.  Obv if we scale it back and make it 1100 its going to play different.  That was pretty much my point .

When saying its 5.5k is obv based on op'ster as played?

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : The more i think about it and from what i have read here i do hate my line. I don't really think the more passive route of raising to 1100 and letting everyone limp call is for me tho either, saying that it does allow you to get away for cheap. Overall i would definatley be shipping in this spot next time. Thanks.
Posted by foldUfairy

Its not exactly passive bud.  We isolate the limpers vs the blinds with the NNP (nut no pair).  Gives us the betting lead and we can extract value on some boards vs strong but inferior hands.

Why do we get dumped out of MTT's?  Because we dont leave ourselves room to play.  1100 or shove ftw

VUL tho tbf.  And agree, really dont like how he plays his hand (which I may have hinted at in first post :P)

Batkin88

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Meant as played.  Obv if we scale it back and make it 1100 its going to play different.  That was pretty much my point . When saying its 5.5k is obv based on op'ster as played?
Posted by AMYBR

Completely misread your post my bad

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

If you raise and get 1 caller at 1.1 k it is a 2.8k pot not 5.5 so c-betting would be viable and profitable if you jam alot of players will put u on this exact hand in a tournament
Posted by Batkin88

How can they if i'll be doing this with my whole range?

You can't just limp call it off with a medium pair hoping your good against AK.

I do think there will be certain situations were making it 1.1k will probably be slightly better than shipping but not many. Thanks.

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Completely misread your post my bad
Posted by Batkin88

lol it's ok mate.

AMYBR

I'll fold 77 to AK 30bbs deep in MTT all week n twice n sunday

foldUfairy

In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:

I'll fold 77 to AK 30bbs deep in MTT all week n twice n sunday
Posted by AMYBR

Haha me doss.

Dudeskin8

I probably raise a bit less pre, about 1600.

Flop you hit the nuts for your hand and just unlucky he has set.

Pre think it's just a bit too much for shove but does depend on how loose they play as in soem BH's people will limp and call off with lots of high card combo's.

liamboi11

i think your sizing pre flop is fine imo
and on the flop your just vul he hit set vs your tptk