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THURSDAY 31ST MAY 2012 POKER CLINIC SHOW

SkyPokerTVSkyPokerTV Member Posts: 185
edited May 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Hi All,

Please post your hands to be analysed on this thread if you would like us to view them on Thursday nights Poker Clinic at 8pm. All comments/feedback are welcome on all the hands that are posted.

VERY IMPORTANT!
We can only show hands from tables or tournaments with a TV icon next to them.
We also need you to tell us straight off which tournament or table the hand is from, as the hand i.d. on its own takes too long for our team to find.

We also welcome comments on the hands from the Poker Community.


All the best

TV Team
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Comments

  • profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
    edited May 2012
    Hi folks,

    Looking for some overview of what i should be looking for around the table...eg stack sizes, aggression etc.
    In this hand would you comment on the bet sizing an any other considerations. I can see bb has 10 bb's or so but i don't want him running away so thought 3xBB was ok as consistent and may get him to reraise all-in. Your thoughts appreciated.

     After all Doyle Brunson saysthat "Aces will either win you a small pot or lose you a big one" probably due to the FILWH syndrome.....
    Nver heard of of it.........Its Falling In Love With Hand syndrome........there you go a 'Tikayism'

    date 11/5 comp is mini open
    hand id 518196278
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  • SkyPokerTVSkyPokerTV Member Posts: 185
    edited May 2012
    Just a reminder that you can post your hands (and not just your hand IDs in here) so that other community members can comment on the hands too.

    If anyone would like their hand analysed on tomorrow night's Poker Clinic, do send your hands over to us via this thread.  Please remember that it must be from a table with a TV icon or we can't show it.

    Thanks,
    The Sky Poker TV Team
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT Member Posts: 6,451
    edited May 2012


         

            Hi i have 2 hands for you from past 7 days on cash


       Hand 1 from MC4 ID NO. 524352468

      Q. I know it was a loose or maybe marginal call Pre, so when i hit the flop & Bet, then got re-raised should i have raised again,also should i have bet on turn


       
    ACEGOONER Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £38.50
    thomas87 Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £40.77
      Your hole cards
    • 3
    • 3
    		     
    DTWBANDIT Call   £0.20 £0.50 £44.24
    rtc Raise   £0.40 £0.90 £38.51
    catious Fold        
    slade02 Raise   £1.20 £2.10 £46.32
    ACEGOONER Call   £1.10 £3.20 £37.40
    thomas87 Fold        
    DTWBANDIT Call   £1.00 £4.20 £43.24
    rtc Fold        
    Flop
       
    • 3
    • 4
    • Q
    		     
    ACEGOONER Check        
    DTWBANDIT Bet   £2.10 £6.30 £41.14
    slade02 Raise   £4.20 £10.50 £42.12
    ACEGOONER Call   £4.20 £14.70 £33.20
    DTWBANDIT Call   £2.10 £16.80 £39.04
    Turn
       
    • 6
    		     
    ACEGOONER Check        
    DTWBANDIT Check        
    slade02 Check        
    River
       
    • 6
    		     
    ACEGOONER Check        
    DTWBANDIT Bet   £8.40 £25.20 £30.64
    slade02 Call   £8.40 £33.60 £33.72
    ACEGOONER Fold        
    DTWBANDIT Show
    • 3
    • 3
    		     
    slade02 Muck
    • Q
    • A
    		     
    DTWBANDIT Win Full House, 3s and 6s £31.92   £62.56
       


       Hand 2 From MC 3   ID NO.  524310609

       Q. pre flop should i have re-raised, Post flop could i have got off this hand or played it Differently


         
    clifford08 Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £32.74
    tuf-poker Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £23.05
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • A
    		     
    stuarto68 Raise   £1.00 £1.30 £7.01
    DTWBANDIT Call   £1.00 £2.30 £33.72
    UareLIMPER Fold        
    clifford08 Fold        
    tuf-poker Fold        
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • 8
    • Q
    		     
    stuarto68 Check        
    DTWBANDIT Check        
    Turn
       
    • K
    		     
    stuarto68 Bet   £2.30 £4.60 £4.71
    DTWBANDIT Call   £2.30 £6.90 £31.42
    River
       
    • 9
    		     
    stuarto68 All-in   £4.71 £11.61 £0.00
    DTWBANDIT Call   £4.71 £16.32 £26.71
    stuarto68 Show
    • 8
    • Q
    		     
    DTWBANDIT Show
    • K
    • A
    		     
    stuarto68 Win Two Pairs, Queens and 8s £15.50   £15.50

      
         


         
      
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  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited May 2012
    DTWBANDIT'S hand. POCKET 33

    Actually your call preflop is ok as you are playing a deepstack table and so you do have more play and more implied odds. After that it wasn't so good. Either 4bet the flop, or if you want to call to see if a heart misses on the turn a call is ok, as it doesn't polarise your range to badly, but when the heart doesn't come on the turn you can't be giving another free card to 2 players and shold bet out here. I would make it about £10-£11 on the turn so that one or even two callers will give you the chance to shove on the river if board doesn't drop in a bad card.

    So, call flop 3bet is fine, but lead the turn or you lose value and risk giving free cards to draws, and jam the river on a good card like you got. Bet for value when you hit your big hands, don't check because you worry they may fold. Free cards = bad.
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited May 2012
    DTWBandit Hand 1:

    Raise pre, don't open limp.

    As played, calling the 3bet pre is fine because it's another £1 to call, and our £44 is the effective stack, so we're definitely right to set mine. We aren't closing the action, so if RTC 4bets, we've basically donated £1 to the pot, but I think it's still the correct call.

    Flop

    We have 2 opponents, so when we donk lead the flop, it's much less likely to be a bluff than in a HU pot - If we have a value hand almost all of the time, and someone's going to call half pot, they're probably going to call 2/3rds pot or 3/4 pot, so I'd donk lead the flop a bit bigger, closer to 3/4 pot as it's still going to get called by draws, mid pocket pairs, or Qx.

    Also, I don't mind the donk lead but if you're donk leading a set of 3s here, we have to also make sure we donk lead sometimes with other stuff (draws as a semi-bluff) to balance our range - Hands like Ax of hearts, Qx of hearts, A2, A5, 56, so that we don't always have a set here. I think it's very unlikely you'd limp and call a 3bet any of those hands from UTG.

    Because of the way we've played this hand pre-flop, it's actually really difficult to have a balanced range, which is another reason to be making a standard raise pre-flop with the Pocket 3s as it'll actually make it harder for anyone to put us on a set of 3s when we hit - It also builds the pot nicely when we do flop a set, as we want to win 200bb, not a small % of the opponent's stack.

    FWIW, I really don't like the villain's min-raise with AQ - If someone donk leads to "find out where they are" with a hand like Pocket 8s here, which some people do, then it's just going to fold to any aggression, so I'd rather see either a flat call with the AQ, and keep the weaker hands that someone donk leads with in the pot, or a bigger raise to charge the draws if you think someone's going to donk lead as a semi bluff - A min raise is just pointless. But we're not analysing Slade's play, so that's irrelevant ;)

    I don't mind flatting on the flop, as I think against a good player, if we 3bet having taken the line we took pre-flop, I think we're effectively narrowing our range to 33 and 44, so if we 3bet the flop having limp/called pre, I think we're only getting £40 in the middle when behind with bottom set. Therefore, I kinda like the flat after the min raise.

    Turn

    I think we have to bet this turn - The flush draw is still there, A5 has picked up another 4 outs, and if we're against a station with top pair, we'll still get paid, so I'm betting this turn 100% of the time, for value and to protect our hand.

    River

    Board has paired and the flush draw has missed. This is a really good river for us, the only other thing we could hope for is a heart that pairs the board, and this is a perfect example of why we should bet the turn - If we bet £10 on the turn, I think we can shove this river and some opponents won't fold TPTK, so we could potentially stack our opponent. Instead, we've left £30.64 behind, so I think you've lost at least that by not betting the turn, plus we could've possibly got a few quid out of Acegooner too, if he was drawing, so it's a MASSIVE mistake not to bet the turn. 

    As played, I think we can also go for more than half pot - If we're going to get half pot called by TPGK maybe putting us on a worse Qx or a missed heart draw, I think he'll pay £10 or £11, so we've lost some value there.
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited May 2012
    DTWBandit Hand 2

    Easy 3bet pre and be happy to get stacks in against the guy with £7. If 4bet from later position, I think that AK is a pretty easy fold.

    Check back flop is fine.

    Jam turn, make sure we get paid by JT, AT, AJ, and spade draws. I imagine if he's got a made hand he's never folding anyway, so if he's picked up a draw and gone crazy on the turn, make sure we charge him the maximum.
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  • FabraclassFabraclass Member Posts: 117
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: THURSDAY 31ST MAY 2012 POKER CLINIC SHOW:
                  Hi i have 2 hands for you from past 7 days on cash    Hand 1 from MC4 ID NO. 524352468   Q. I know it was a loose or maybe marginal call Pre, so when i hit the flop & Bet, then got re-raised should i have raised again,also should i have bet on turn     ACEGOONER Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £38.50 thomas87 Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £40.77   Your hole cards 3 3       DTWBANDIT Call   £0.20 £0.50 £44.24 rtc Raise   £0.40 £0.90 £38.51 catious Fold         slade02 Raise   £1.20 £2.10 £46.32 ACEGOONER Call   £1.10 £3.20 £37.40 thomas87 Fold         DTWBANDIT Call   £1.00 £4.20 £43.24 rtc Fold         Flop     3 4 Q       ACEGOONER Check         DTWBANDIT Bet   £2.10 £6.30 £41.14 slade02 Raise   £4.20 £10.50 £42.12 ACEGOONER Call   £4.20 £14.70 £33.20 DTWBANDIT Call   £2.10 £16.80 £39.04 Turn     6       ACEGOONER Check         DTWBANDIT Check         slade02 Check         River     6       ACEGOONER Check         DTWBANDIT Bet   £8.40 £25.20 £30.64 slade02 Call   £8.40 £33.60 £33.72 ACEGOONER Fold         DTWBANDIT Show 3 3       slade02 Muck Q A       DTWBANDIT Win Full House, 3s and 6s £31.92   £62.56        Hand 2 From MC 3   ID NO.  524310609    Q. pre flop should i have re-raised, Post flop could i have got off this hand or played it Differently       clifford08 Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £32.74 tuf-poker Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £23.05   Your hole cards K A       stuarto68 Raise   £1.00 £1.30 £7.01 DTWBANDIT Call   £1.00 £2.30 £33.72 UareLIMPER Fold         clifford08 Fold         tuf-poker Fold         Flop     2 8 Q       stuarto68 Check         DTWBANDIT Check         Turn     K       stuarto68 Bet   £2.30 £4.60 £4.71 DTWBANDIT Call   £2.30 £6.90 £31.42 River     9       stuarto68 All-in   £4.71 £11.61 £0.00 DTWBANDIT Call   £4.71 £16.32 £26.71 stuarto68 Show 8 Q       DTWBANDIT Show K A       stuarto68 Win Two Pairs, Queens and 8s £15.50   £15.50                  
    Posted by DTWBANDIT
    Hand 1

    I love calling with the 3s here pre flop, 200bbs deep  Even if you all have 100bbs I think a call is good here, as it is a multiway pot.I think this likely to be a very good call long term. For the following reasons.


    1 Opponents have deep stacked. Their if we hit our set we have great implied odds

    2 Its a multi way 3 bet pot, therefore we have  even greater implied odd, if we hit our set.

    3 Set over set is so unlikely.

    4 We are likely to be getting our money in very good post flop with a set.

    5 Many people struggle to fold overpairs in a 3 bet pot, even for 200ish bbs.

    If we don't hit our set its an instant fold. Easy life with this hand in this situation.

    On the flop

    I like lead. No guarantee button is going to bet bluffs 3 way,and may use their position to pot control, particularly this deep. Just try and bet flush draws aswell in this situation, so players can't get a read that you always bet sets here.

    They may raise you with air,(depending on the player)a flush draw(Most likely nut flush draw, or high flush draw anyway given stack depth),or AQ overpair.

    When they raise your bet, I am sure the best play here is to re raise again. A flush card on turn may stop action, or you may go behind to flush.Don't raise too small though, as this indicate massive strength. I like a fairly big raise, as you want to rep a flush draw that is looking for a fold, but not too big, that they are not tempted to raise over your bet or call.  It you are confident they know you wouldn't re raise again with a flush draw, or anything less then a set, Then in this situation I think a flat call is best.

    On the turn

     I think a lead is ok.Given stack depth(opponent may check behind hands for pot control). Could look like a semi bluff with a flush draw that missed on the turn. He prob wouldn't be expecting to flat his flop raise with a set.

    On the river

    I like either a bigger bet to represent a missed flush draw(close to pot) or a small bet to represent a blocker type bet with a queen, hoping they will go over the top of you for value with an overpair or AQ.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited May 2012
    Can I suggest that you guys try to condense your thoughts into two or three sentences. They'll never read all of those long responses out on the show and if you don't summarise your thoughts yourself, the folks behind the cameras will summarise them for you. You might not like the results.
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  • FabraclassFabraclass Member Posts: 117
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: THURSDAY 31ST MAY 2012 POKER CLINIC SHOW:
    Can I suggest that you guys try to condense your thoughts into two or three sentences. They'll never read all of those long responses out on the show and if you don't summarise your thoughts yourself, the folks behind the cameras will summarise them for you. You might not like the results.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    My aim is to help the player, my giving them as much informaion on the hand as possible.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited May 2012
    That's fair enough but they will (maybe) show some of your analysis on the show. So you can provide an abridged version yourself or let them cut it down for you. If you leave it to them, your intentions could be lost.
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  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: THURSDAY 31ST MAY 2012 POKER CLINIC SHOW:
    That's fair enough but they will (maybe) show some of your analysis on the show. So you can provide an abridged version yourself or let them cut it down for you. If you leave it to them, your intentions could be lost.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Think they condensed one of my posts down to "Hand was totally standard"... can't remember the hand, but just caught it on the show, and it caused a good laugh, as was fairly accurate, but very short. Think the hand was top 2 pair vs a straight. (AQ vs KJ maybe)
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: THURSDAY 31ST MAY 2012 POKER CLINIC SHOW:
    Can I suggest that you guys try to condense your thoughts into two or three sentences. They'll never read all of those long responses out on the show and if you don't summarise your thoughts yourself, the folks behind the cameras will summarise them for you. You might not like the results.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Guess mine could be shortened to, erm...

    Don't limp, flop is fine as played, but don't limp. Bet the turn to get value from draws and shove river, don't limp pre, as played bet £10-£11 on river, and don't limp pre.

    Did I mention not limping? ;)

    I don't really mind what mine is shortened to tbh.
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  • FabraclassFabraclass Member Posts: 117
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: THURSDAY 31ST MAY 2012 POKER CLINIC SHOW:
    That's fair enough but they will (maybe) show some of your analysis on the show. So you can provide an abridged version yourself or let them cut it down for you. If you leave it to them, your intentions could be lost.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Dnn't mind mate.I am sure they are clever enough to edit it down well if they want to use it. If the intention is lost, so be it. Bad things happen.
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  • SwogSwog Member Posts: 483
    edited May 2012
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Swog Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £20.47
    Shistus Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £15.59
     Your hole cards
    • J
    • K
    		   
    s2db2dk2ds Fold     
    darryl1976 Fold     
    Swog Raise  £0.25 £0.40 £20.22
    Shistus Call  £0.20 £0.60 £15.39
    Flop
      
    • 2
    • 10
    • Q
    		   
    Swog Bet  £0.40 £1.00 £19.82
    Shistus Raise  £1.10 £2.10 £14.29
    Swog Call  £0.70 £2.80 £19.12
    Turn
      
    • 9
    		   
    Swog Check     
    Shistus Bet  £1.70 £4.50 £12.59
    Swog Call  £1.70 £6.20 £17.42
    River
      
    • 3
    		   
    Swog Check     
    Shistus Bet  £2.20 £8.40 £10.39
    Swog Call  £2.20 £10.60 £15.22
    Shistus Show
    • A
    • A
    		   
    Swog Muck
    • J
    • K
    		   
    Shistus Win Flush to the Ace £9.80  £20.19
    Hand History #525314650 (16:44 30/05/2012) - Master Cash 2 (5p-10p)
    should i be raising turn or okay to flat?
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  • SkyPokerTVSkyPokerTV Member Posts: 185
    edited May 2012
    Hi all,

    Thanks so much for the hands and the comments.  We really appreciate all your contributions.

    BorinLoner - thanks for flagging up that we summarise the comments. 

    Although we appreciate that the comments are first and foremost aimed at the player for their development (which is as it should be), we DO use some the comments for the show and have to condense them to be TV friendly.  Best efforts are always used to try not to lose the essence of the message, but inevitably, sometimes we miss the mark (for which we apologise).

    Many thanks,
    The SKy Poker TV Team
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  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited May 2012
    SWOG's hand.

    In answer to your question. Yes I'm reraising the turn, as you've hit your straight and do have the redraw to the straight flush, or even just a flush. As played its difficult on the river as his bet is SOOO value town to the pot that I can't see him very often having anything other than an A or K of hearts at worst to make the bet so inticing to be called. So much as I'd love to say my head would definately make the wise fold I think some of the time I'd make a crying call...
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