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Time for 10x?
Pipunch
Member Posts: 516
Is it just me? It's just in the last few weeks i've noticed you've got to raise bigger and bigger all the time to throw people off junk preflop. The Ace rag is now impervious to the 8x raise at low limits. 10x anyone?
This isn't just Sky, there's another well known site where people will play ANYTHING at 1c/2c unless you raise to 30c pre. Are times a changin'? Because every bit of material says raise 4-6x, but i guarantee you this is wrong nowadays, nowhere near enough.
This isn't just Sky, there's another well known site where people will play ANYTHING at 1c/2c unless you raise to 30c pre. Are times a changin'? Because every bit of material says raise 4-6x, but i guarantee you this is wrong nowadays, nowhere near enough.
Comments
There is another trend i've noticed recently and that's the old NL4 4p 4p 4p MASSIVE RAISE thing. Someone needs to re-write low stakes strategy i think!
I have certainly seen some changes even over the last couple of years online. 4 x raises and re-raises with connecting cards are now quite common and it's becoming more and more difficult to get anyone to fold pre-flop. That being said surely we do want players to be involved in the hand, theres no point in getting everyone to fold pre-flop? how we play the hand after that is really where the skill comes into it.
NLH is certainly getting a lot of TV exposure these days and the variation of hands that some Pro Players are playing around with these days is extraordinary and sometimes baffling, but the more you see them do it the more you understand it.
I have certainly opened up my range of starting hands considerably in the early stages of tournies over the last few Months. Not sure I have quite got to grips with it yet though lol.
Very interesting point by OP
I am graet beliver that the game is always changing which is of course good for the game I think its just there are so many more players then a few years ago and that is why we are seeing this style of play but I know in MTT if you look at the stats of these guys they are losing players but as a collective their numbers have grown a lot and they do get lucky but never long term. The problem is if you do start to riase 10x and that stops them calling dosent that stop you taking their money dont we want them in the pot and just except they will do a bad beat a small % (or if agaisnt me all the time lol) of the time?
Table full of good players then i don't have to raise that big, table full of muppets (every single NL4 table on Sky) then you do.
Going into a pot with AA 5 handed when you've raised 20p pre flop is a losing strategy.
The only way to get these players out of the pot is to raise bigger, and when you have a hand you want the money in the pot anyway.
So please, elaborate.
Of course when we're in the pot with one person 4x is enough, but not when you've got a table full of people who don't really have a clue what they're doing.
When you're sat on a table with 3/4 donkey calling stations, 20p is NOT enough, i don't care what anyone says. Once one calls, they all call and then your pocket kings shrivel into oblivion when the board throws out an Ace.
I've built my roll up on another site where i can play $50 buy ins and your raises usually get through there.
Yeh - I agree, micro cash see's a lot of this. Also early stages of MTT's whilst the blinds are still small
im wanting people to call raises with junk otherwise i'd only be winning 1.5bb when i do raise. the junk hands hit sometimes but mostly they miss
5x is my standard raise and i do that every time i enter an unopened pot. if i was to open 10x then im scaring a lot of value away. there will be some who still come along with 10x but nowhere near as many.
5x works for me and seeing a flop 4 or 5 way doesnt happen too often when i play
Hi mate, I was sat on your table this afternoon and thought you played ok, the table was loose and you where sat with nearly triple your buy in. Apart from the obv frustration of your last hand when your min raise got 3bet to 28p. I say frustration, because you mentioned something about muppets, I checked the TV guide and they weren’t on so wasn’t sure what you meant. I was surprised you left when you did as there was loads of value.
As for the oop, my view is that there's a lot people at the micro levels who are not that bothered about a 28p bet, as it's not a particularly life changing amount. Some people just want to play, so you will be getting callers, what ever you open with, as you would have seen if you stayed around.
Like you say in your last post, you’re just trying to find the balance. It doesn’t take to long to suss out who is likely to call and who isn’t, therefore when to bet big pre or bet small pre. Sometimes there’s nothing you can do to avoid multiple callers and getting the whole table calling, so when it happens just need to re-evaluate hand.
GL at the tables.
Paul
after all if we have KK on the button and big bind has A2 we are a 67% favorite. Once we see an aceless flop or better yet a AKx flop we are between 80-95% favorite. If we bet properly and they keep calling we might even have them drawing dead by the river when we get most of the money in. Better to get your money in when you are a 100% favorite on the river I think.
So often with AK/AQ/AJ hands at NL4 you have to check fold the flop when you miss since it's difficult to get c-bets through at NL4, especially on drawy boards or broadway boads. Why not make pre-flop bets small to make this check-fold situation cheaper?
people just wanna see flops at nl4 because then it feels like they are playing poker )
get the money in is the easy part, avoiding the mines post flop and folding is the hardest part )
when the guy in two seat limps AGAIN and calls your 24p raise, then c/r u on dry flop - can u fold
THIS.
If you are playing against people you think/know you are better than you should be seeing as many flops as possible. The majority of players at NL4 only have 1 button and it aint raise or fold. Therefore if you consider yourself to be playing against less experienced players who not only call your raises with junk but dont raise their own premium hands you, as the more experienced player who can read board texture SHOULD have no problems making money at micro stakes.
Adjusting raise sizes with multiple limpers is a must of coarse but seriously 28p for a first open is just too exploitable imo.