River decision TPTK

BigHawk89

Hand History #528833200 (12:23 08/06/2012)
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceBigHawk89Small blind £0.10£0.10£24.44knucklerBig blind £0.20£0.30£14.74 Your hole cardsKA   scottyjohnFold    superellaRaise £1.00£1.30£20.76huuuuumeFold    EllBaldwinFold    BigHawk89Call £0.90£2.20£23.54knucklerFold    Flop  8A3   BigHawk89Check    superellaCheck    Turn  3   BigHawk89Bet £1.65£3.85£21.89superellaCall £1.65£5.50£19.11River  5   BigHawk89Bet £4.00£9.50£17.89superellaRaise £17.50£27.00£1.61BigHawk89

KKrippler

In Response to River decision TPTK:

Hand History #528833200 (12:23 08/06/2012) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance BigHawk89 Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £24.44 knuckler Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £14.74   Your hole cards K A       scottyjohn Fold         superella Raise   £1.00 £1.30 £20.76 huuuuume Fold         EllBaldwin Fold         BigHawk89 Call   £0.90 £2.20 £23.54 knuckler Fold         Flop     8 A 3       BigHawk89 Check         superella Check         Turn     3       BigHawk89 Bet   £1.65 £3.85 £21.89 superella Call   £1.65 £5.50 £19.11 River     5       BigHawk89 Bet   £4.00 £9.50 £17.89 superella Raise   £17.50 £27.00 £1.61 BigHawk89
Posted by BigHawk89

Easy fold

He never has a worse ace after checking back the flop.

Prob hit back door flush

percival09

always a fold readless

EvilPingu

What a strange line, just makes no sense. I'm calling this.

You'd expect a c-bet when the villain has nothing or a value hand. If someone checks back that flop, it's probably because they have a hand with showdown value but no value in betting, so 99-KK or maybe a random 8. Could be a set that the villain has played weird, but with the ace out there, and the flush draw, you'd expect someone to bet a set to extract value. The only value hand I might check back is a set of aces, thinking it's unlikely someone will have the case ace.

He calls the turn, 'cause you're presumably betting there with anything when the villain shows perceived weakness by not c-betting, which would also make sense if he had showdown value, as you're going to bet that turn with anything.

The river is weird. If he's got a hand with showdown value, then why the **** would he now raise the river? The backdoor diamonds also make no sense, checking back the flop would suggest he has showdown value. He can't have 8x which he checked back and hit a backdoor flush because the 8d is on the flop, so he obviously can't have a hand like 98dd, or 87dd. We've got the Ad ourselves so he can't have that. If he had showdown value with 99-KK, he can't have a flush either.

It might be a slow played set, or possibly he's checked back the flop and called the turn with 5s, then binked on the river? I can't see him ever having diamonds here, you'd expect KQdd, or any other diamond combos, to cbet the flop. 3s are unlikely 'cause there's 2 on the board. 

We're putting the villain on AA or 88 here if we fold, possibly 55 or 33 too I guess. All of those hands are unlikely because you'd expect 33 and 88 to cbet the flop for value, and 55 probably cbets the flop and/or folds on the turn, and we have an A in our hand, so the chances of him being dealt the other two aces are unlikely, although that's about the only value hand he's representing.

His line makes no sense, he can have missed spades or something that he's decided to bluff with (although you'd expect a cbet), maybe he's decided that he's behind and he's turned a hand like Pocket Jacks into a bluff, perhaps? I think he's either got a house or a bluff here, and I think he's got a bluff more often than he's got a house.

huuuuume

fold river.

3 bet pre

percival09

villain doesn't have to cbet with KQdd JQdd whatever... it depends on reads/image so much, if villain sees hero as a station and he doesn't fold to many cbets he might just check back

you can't say his line makes no sense without any info imo

KAM99

I don't totally agree with pingu on this occasion. Can see his point, but I can see some people checking hands with diamonds on the flop. Say he has a hand like QJ diamonds he may consider taking a free card is better than risk the chance you called with a big ace and are setting up a C/R, and so takes the free card to see if his hand improves rather than get blow off the hand by a C/R. Not saying thats what happened, but some people might play it this way, might even myself on occasion rather than just Cbet every time repping the ace.

I also, don't like the idea of calling the river overly readless. Yes his line is weird for whatever he has other than making set on turn or river, or having set of aces. But not everyone plays smart lines, thats poker. Lost count of people I've seen play big hands totally weirdly and get very little value out of them because they tried to play them tricky or trappy and failed totally in whatever they were doing. So for me what is he really going to shove on a board that is offering flush and a paired board? Yes maybe he is bluffing with missed spade draw, but that would be a fairly crazy one if it is. Ok, might get through sometimes, but I'm not loving the option to call here on the board.

I can see it from Pingu's view that is line is weird and he may not have much, but just have a feeling just cus someone plays wierd doesn't mean we should call an all in on a board that isn't uber great when all we have is a pair, even if its TP. With reads maybe a call, but otherwise I just don't see to often this is a bluff.

donkeyplop

Where they open raising 5x a lot ? 

Had they been solid or loose before this? 

I havnt seen that name before so am assuming they are a recreational player.

I think they could have overvalued aq or aj. 

It could be aa I guess.

By. River you are losing to quite a few hands. 

As for flush do you think they are 5x raising with at best kq diamonds?  I'm not so sure. 

AMYBR

Its very tricky tbh.  Dont know what to make of the 5x pre, but this would impact heavily for me in hand

Seems like he obv has a draw on turn (checks back flop & peels turn)  He never opts to juice up pot so we can forget about a lot of hands.

Weirdly river looks bluffy.  A mid/weak flush likely would not raise this river.  Cant see stacks but its just ridic polarising to 55 xdxd and bluffs.  Hard to read the design of raise on the river without saying how deep you both are.

I have similar thoughts to Evilpingu so might call.  Would be very villain/dynamic dependant for me.

Dont mind not 3betting pre, but am always c/cing c/fing  on river.  Bfing this spot is ugly and board has run out pretty grim.

Wacko90

This isnt a tricky decision, your going to get much better spots to get someones stack, just lay it down if its a bluff wp but how often is this really a bluff? Very rarely imo, lay it down

AMYBR

line taken is what makes it tricky

rancid

oppo got a house

grantorino

Reads?

Prob 3 bet pre, I assume you had reads not to

Fold river

BigHawk89

Thanks for feedback. I didnt 3 bet pre because first time ive played the oppo and was the first time ive seen them open 5x, i didnt want to 3 bet get it in pre against a player which i think i have an edge over so decided to call and see a flop. Obviously was a brilliant flop to me this in a 5 x raised pot is more or less the nuts. When the opponent checked back, i assumed they had 1010-QQ so went for some value. When it come to the river raise i just thought it was really too big and just looked like they was turning their pair into a bluff to knock me off a hand such as A10 - AQ, plus i have a blocker to the nut flush, so i called and saw he bad news.........AA. Sick.

AMYBR

In Response to Re: River decision TPTK:

Thanks for feedback. I didnt 3 bet pre because first time ive played the oppo and was the first time ive seen them open 5x, i didnt want to 3 bet get it in pre against a player which i think i have an edge over so decided to call and see a flop. Obviously was a brilliant flop to me this in a 5 x raised pot is more or less the nuts. When the opponent checked back, i assumed they had 1010-QQ so went for some value. When it come to the river raise i just thought it was really too big and just looked like they was turning their pair into a bluff to knock me off a hand such as A10 - AQ, plus i have a blocker to the nut flush, so i called and saw he bad news.........AA. Sick.
Posted by BigHawk89

Well that being the case:

A) just going in in tonnes of different (better) ways

He just plays his hand horribly, I mean really horribly

patwalshh

Pre is a hard one, 3 bet is my standard. But when they open to 5x it's a bit blehh and often your just folding out worse Aces. I think you played it fine if you folded river.