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Can I call with the worse hand?

jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
edited June 2012 in The Poker Clinic
I feel I should have bet the flop bigger here. My reason for only betting half pot was because there is only the straight draw to protect against. I thought that a king would have made a raise on the flop so I thought I was up against a queen or a draw. Once the jack comes completting any gut shot draws with AT/9T I figure I can get value from two pair broadway hands by betting. The check-raise from the small blind on the turn leaves me convinced I'm up against 9T or AT now. Can I still call to see the river as long as I fold if the board doesn't pair?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
SB Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £4.15
BB
Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £1.21
  Your hole cards
  • 3
  • 3
     
UTG Fold        
CO
Call   £0.04 £0.10 £3.14
jugglegeek Call   £0.04 £0.14 £4.25
SB
Raise   £0.06 £0.20 £4.09
BB
Call   £0.04 £0.24 £1.17
CO
Call   £0.04 £0.28 £3.10
jugglegeek Call   £0.04 £0.32 £4.21
Flop
   
  • Q
  • 3
  • K
     
SB
Check        
BB
Check        
CO
Check        
jugglegeek Bet   £0.16 £0.48 £4.05
SB
Call   £0.16 £0.64 £3.93
BB
Call   £0.16 £0.80 £1.01
CO
Fold        
Turn
   
  • J
     
SB
Check        
BB
Check        
jugglegeek Bet   £0.60 £1.40 £3.45
SB
Raise   £1.20 £2.60 £2.73
BB
Fold        
jugglegeek ???        

Comments

  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited June 2012
    oppo may have 2 pr, get em in
    don't call, you would still have a bunch of outs if oppo shows u straight
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2012
    I give you permission to call if you wish. You are absolutely allowed to.

    I agree with rancid though. I'd want to get it in and wouldn't be afraid of gut-shots that called on the flop. People don't call flop bets, multi-way with gut-shots that often. If he has done, then good luck to him. We can still pair the board and we'd fancy ourselves to get value from this guy in future. I think two-pairs or better sets are more likely than straights, to be fair.
  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Can I call with the worse hand?:
    I give you permission to call if you wish. You are absolutely allowed to. I agree with rancid though. I'd want to get it in and wouldn't be afraid of gut-shots that called on the flop. People don't call flop bets, multi-way with gut-shots that often. If he has done, then good luck to him. We can still pair the board and we'd fancy ourselves to get value from this guy in future. I think two-pairs or better sets are more likely than straights, to be fair.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    You're kidding right? At this level they will call on gutshots 100% of the time in a large percentage fo the players playing that level. They don't consider that they only have 4 cards in deck, just that they may well hit get it. **** often they will call off on the turn too.

    As for the OP and his question. On the call you are getting fine odds to call if that is the question, as you are about 4:1 to hit your outs with pot odds of slightly bettter, and thats without implied odds if you hit. Though i will agree with Borin that getting it in here is no bad thing either. We don't set farm to lay them down to often when we get them unless the board really has got bad and we see good cause from a good player to think we are behind.

    Really though calling here to fold if you don't pair the board would be bad against most unknowns. Certainly a raise at turn at low limits will normally mean one pair is no good, but with only couple of likely hands ahead of you i don't think you can be thinking about calling for just pairing the board and laying down if you miss. Really getting it in at the turn and then hoping to hit if you are behind is better as you put the choice on them to make on calling or not, and thats normally far better.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Can I call with the worse hand?:
    In Response to Re: Can I call with the worse hand? : You're kidding right? At this level they will call on gutshots 100% of the time in a large percentage fo the players playing that level. They don't consider that they only have 4 cards in deck, just that they may well hit get it. **** often they will call off on the turn too. As for the OP and his question. On the call you are getting fine odds to call if that is the question, as you are about 4:1 to hit your outs with pot odds of slightly bettter, and thats without implied odds if you hit. Though i will agree with Borin that getting it in here is no bad thing either. We don't set farm to lay them down to often when we get them unless the board really has got bad and we see good cause from a good player to think we are behind.
    Posted by KAM99
    Well... okay... maybe at NL4. lol

    I still don't think I'd be too worried about it, though. Straights are less likely than two-pairs. "Our opponents are bad" isn't a reason to polarise their range to only the nuts when they raise.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited June 2012
    **** protecting your hand, bet flop bigger for value

    Raise turn and get it in, if you know you are behind flatting fine..  You are narrowing ranges far too much though

  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Can I call with the worse hand?:
    **** protecting your hand, bet flop bigger for value Raise turn and get it in, if you know you are behind flatting fine..  You are narrowing ranges far too much though
    Posted by grantorino
    very much this.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Can I call with the worse hand?:
    **** protecting your hand, bet flop bigger for value Raise turn and get it in, if you know you are behind flatting fine..  You are narrowing ranges far too much though
    Posted by grantorino
    Yes. Should have said bet more on the flop. It's a dream flop for you as it smacks their ranges, so go big for value.
  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited June 2012
    Here's the hand in full. Have to say I felt smug when I saw what he had. The deciding factor was the fact that it was a min-raise. Maybe I just got lucky
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    SB Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £4.15
    BB
    Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £1.21
      Your hole cards
    • 3
    • 3
         
    UTG
    Fold        
    CO
    Call   £0.04 £0.10 £3.14
    jugglegeek Call   £0.04 £0.14 £4.25
    SB
    Raise   £0.06 £0.20 £4.09
    BB
    Call   £0.04 £0.24 £1.17
    CO
    Call   £0.04 £0.28 £3.10
    jugglegeek Call   £0.04 £0.32 £4.21
    Flop
       
    • Q
    • 3
    • K
         
    SB
    Check        
    BB
    Check        
    CO
    Check        
    jugglegeek Bet   £0.16 £0.48 £4.05
    SB
    Call   £0.16 £0.64 £3.93
    BB
    Call   £0.16 £0.80 £1.01
    CO
    Fold        
    Turn
       
    • J
         
    SB
    Check        
    BB
    Check        
    jugglegeek Bet   £0.60 £1.40 £3.45
    SB
    Raise   £1.20 £2.60 £2.73
    BB
    Fold        
    jugglegeek Call   £0.60 £3.20 £2.85
    River
       
    • K
         
    SB
    All-in   £2.73 £5.93 £0.00
    jugglegeek Call   £2.73 £8.66 £0.12
    SB
    Show
    • 9
    • 10
         
    jugglegeek Show
    • 3
    • 3
         
    jugglegeek Win Full House, 3s and Kings £8.01   £8.13
  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Can I call with the worse hand?:
    Here's the hand in full. Have to say I felt smug when I saw what he had. The deciding factor was the fact that it was a min-raise. Maybe I just got lucky Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance SB Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £4.15 BB Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £1.21   Your hole cards 3 3       UTG Fold         CO Call   £0.04 £0.10 £3.14 jugglegeek Call   £0.04 £0.14 £4.25 SB Raise   £0.06 £0.20 £4.09 BB Call   £0.04 £0.24 £1.17 CO Call   £0.04 £0.28 £3.10 jugglegeek Call   £0.04 £0.32 £4.21 Flop     Q 3 K       SB Check         BB Check         CO Check         jugglegeek Bet   £0.16 £0.48 £4.05 SB Call   £0.16 £0.64 £3.93 BB Call   £0.16 £0.80 £1.01 CO Fold         Turn     J       SB Check         BB Check         jugglegeek Bet   £0.60 £1.40 £3.45 SB Raise   £1.20 £2.60 £2.73 BB Fold         jugglegeek Call   £0.60 £3.20 £2.85 River     K       SB All-in   £2.73 £5.93 £0.00 jugglegeek Call   £2.73 £8.66 £0.12 SB Show 9 10       jugglegeek Show 3 3       jugglegeek Win Full House, 3s and Kings £8.01   £8.13
    Posted by jugglegeek
    Maybe he got 7/1 lucky then gave you a very friendly price to get lucky back :)
  • mickgil75mickgil75 Member Posts: 328
    edited June 2012
    u have to call,its sky poker
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