Scotty77 said i should do this........

profman15

Hi folks

I sent a post to the programme on DYM's concerning the Bubble value theory. Scotty was honest enough to say he'd read about it but the question had caught him off guard somewhat. I appreciate his honesty and respect that he didn't try to blag it. He suggested that i should put it out to the forum and some of the better players/regs at DYM's as he doesn't consider himself one of the 'experts' at DYM's. He did mention Dohhhh, Nutter and others.

So the question is....
Does anyone use the Bubble Factor in DYM's which is a way of giving the correct tournament odds needed to call an opponent's AI? If so, what value do you use as the ICM calculation would surely be different for a 50=30-20 sitngo than a DYM?

Mind, after watching the programme, there was so much poor play highlighted that i'm not sure it's needed anyway! No offence but if you're on here taking an interest in the forum then i i doubt whether you'd be forever limping into pots in DYM's

EvilPingu

I've genuinely never heard of this theory before, made a note to myself to research it though.

Honestly, it's not something I'd worry about at the lower levels - There's so much bad play that really, just using common sense and staying out of trouble is good enough to show a decent ROI% over time. There's obviously no harm in learning about it though, it can only really improve your game.

KAM99

Are you talking about what value to assign as your win in cash? Its not like you are getting different values like a standard sng so assume you'd have to base it on the double up prize versus the buyin value if talking about a bubble choice.

I really don't play SnG's though much these days so don't really have to bother with ICM, so must admit while I know the basics of it, its not something I have to use daily and I don't have an ICM calculator to hand because of that. Maybe check one of those, might give you the answer you need if you input the data into one of those.

What I would say is that at low levels you can bet that none of the people you are shoving on will be using ICM to decide on their calls, and so you shouldn't bother to consider them doing so in 99% of cases, and so adjust your shoves accordingly. As for if you base your own calls on ICM, well guess thats up to you if you do or not. Guess its right to do so, but like I say this isn't my main game at all, nor my most informed subject due to not really using it, only having read it, and not recently either.

VespaPX

Found this if its of any use to you:

http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/sitandgo/sng_strategy/too-many-donks-sng-bubble.html

profman15

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

Found this if its of any use to you: http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/sitandgo/sng_strategy/too-many-donks-sng-bubble.html
Posted by VespaPX

Thanks Vespa

Actually i do have a book outlining the theory which i understand but the value given to divide into the pot odds in order to get the true pot odds is not given for a dym. It is only given for a 50-30-20 sitngo. I suspect that for a dym, the value will be different.

To be honest after some of the play i've seen lately, it may not matter at all but its just an interesting question. I've sent it to Tikay tonight. Scotty77 was honest enough to say that i should contact some dym regs which is why the post is here now. Cheers though.

PS Good effort in the DTD forum last inght

VespaPX

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........ : Thanks Vespa Actually i do have a book outlining the theory which i understand but the value given to divide into the pot odds in order to get the true pot odds is not given for a dym. It is only given for a 50-30-20 sitngo. I suspect that for a dym, the value will be different. To be honest after some of the play i've seen lately, it may not matter at all but its just an interesting question. I've sent it to Tikay tonight. Scotty77 was honest enough to say that i should contact some dym regs which is why the post is here now. Cheers though. PS Good effort in the DTD forum last inght
Posted by profman15

Cheers buddy,
I think there are enough DYM regs playing to come up with a theory.
I play quite a few but not enough to give advice to others.
Lots of variables to equate:
Stack sizes
Position
Type of players on the table
Blind levels
etc etc.....

JohnConnor

Steve, I've sent you a PM mate.

rancid

just icm isn't it based on dons not sng's isn't it ?

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

just icm isn't it based on dons not sng's isn't it ?
Posted by rancid

ICM applies to regular SnG's too.

rancid

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........ : ICM applies to regular SnG's too.
Posted by EvilPingu

yeah ofc just payout structure is not the same thoughout

TWRAMYEP

Hi profman15,

Any ICM calcs take the prize pool distribution as an essential input to the calcs.

Using a 50/30/20 structure when playing a 33.33/33.33/33.33 will give you warped and incorrect answers/advice for a DYM.

rancid

play around with this, try don 6 max (double or nothing) under payout

http://www.pokericmcalculator.com/icmizer/

have fun

profman15

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

Hi profman15, Any ICM calcs take the prize pool distribution as an essential input to the calcs. Using a 50/30/20 structure when playing a 33.33/33.33/33.33 will give you warped and incorrect answers/advice for a DYM.
Posted by TWRAMYEP

Exactly sir ...so the values for a bubble factor at various stages in dym's WILL be different. Agreed?

profman15

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

play around with this, try don 6 max (double or nothing) under payout http://www.pokericmcalculator.com/icmizer/ have fun
Posted by rancid

Cheers rancid.
Thats a nice app but the problem is that the payout structure won't give equal shares to 3/6. It only has stuff like 60:40 etc. this does affect ICM, i think, and consequently the Bubble Factor value.

It has been an interesting theory to talk over though and has improved my understanding of what's needed in dym's. Ta for your input.

rancid

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........ : Cheers rancid. Thats a nice app but the problem is that the payout structure won't give equal shares to 3/6. It only has stuff like 60:40 etc. this does affect ICM, i think, and consequently the Bubble Factor value. It has been an interesting theory to talk over though and has improved my understanding of what's needed in dym's. Ta for your input.
Posted by profman15

Hi Prof,

Well with the app you can select various payout structures or create your own, if you select don 6 max then it's the same as DYM 6 max payout structure. Obviously it's a post game tool but will help understanding calling/shoving ranges etc..

TWRAMYEP

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........:

In Response to Re: Scotty77 said i should do this........ : Exactly sir ...so the values for a bubble factor at various stages in dym's WILL be different. Agreed?
Posted by profman15

Agreed.

TWRAMYEP

Im pritty sure bubble factor values change in every game were chips are not equal to £s, so every tournament except winner takes all.