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Standard?

bolly580bolly580 Member Posts: 603
edited June 2012 in The Poker Clinic
no real dynamic between players, no reeds etc should i bet this river, does he have QJ AJ here enough of the time?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancerichteaSmall blind £0.10£0.10£19.94boroboy17Big blind £0.20£0.30£18.02 Your hole cardsAQ   bolly580Raise £0.60£0.90£19.10maadmaanFold    TeamMoneyFold    spread1969Fold    richteaFold    boroboy17Call £0.40£1.30£17.62Flop  A2Q   boroboy17Check    bolly580Bet £0.80£2.10£18.30boroboy17Call £0.80£2.90£16.82Turn  J   boroboy17Check    bolly580Bet £2.40£5.30£15.90boroboy17Raise £4.80£10.10£12.02bolly580Call £2.40£12.50£13.50River  9   boroboy17Check    bolly580Bet £6.25£18.75£7.25boroboy17All-in £12.02£30.77£0.00bolly580Call £5.77£36.54£1.48boroboy17ShowK10   bolly580ShowAQ   boroboy17WinStraight to the Ace£34.74 £34.74

Comments

  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited June 2012
    Its just one of them hands but imo you should of checked behind him on the river

    Yeah its horrible if he shows AJ/QJ that maybe you could of got more out of him but its even worse it he shows you a set or like he did a straight :(
  • KAM99KAM99 Member Posts: 773
    edited June 2012
    At this level very rare a check raise on the turn is a good sign that a pair is good. And ok in this spot you did have top two pair, and so have to ask if he is check raising something better than a single pair its unlikely he has AQ as well. So for me as he didn't check raise the flop I would be concered about K10, though would feel a bit rubbish seeing someone chase a gutshot and get there.

    That said I'm ok with everything up to the river, and here even though I may miss some value I think I check behind, as you do get passive people that aren't prepared to put in their own value bet and hope you'll fire again so they can get even more out of you. So for me based on the turn C/R I think I check behind with no information on villian.

    Also, good advice for future. If you have a question about a hand don't leave the hand results on the post, as it colours the advice you get if people can see what happened. Just copy the hand up to the point where you were facing your choice and the question you want to ask. Then people have to make the same choice you did with nothing to sway them one way or the other, other than the same information you had.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2012
    Your opponent played this very strangely. After you call his check-raise on the turn you would expect him to value bet the river with the nuts, not check it to you hoping that you'll bet.

    In order to put your opponent on the straight you have to believe that he called the flop with just a gut-shot, which isn't something you will see very often. Given that, the only hands that will normally be in his range on the river are hands such as Ax, two-pair and sets. Obviously our top two-pair beats everything in that range apart from the sets, and the pre-flop action makes AA and QQ unlikely while the flop action should make JJ and 99 unlikely too. Basically that leaves 22 as the only hand I'd be afraid of on the river.

    After he checks the river to me, I'd definitely bet for value. I'd expect to be ahead almost all of the time here and I think we're missing value if we just check behind. I think you can expect to get value from AJ or QJ. You might even get value from some Ax hands against poor players. He could also have AQ, of course. When he shoves I would call. It's a really strange play from him but I couldn't let it go considering the 6/1 pot odds and I'd think that there's a pretty good chance I was still winning.

    The result of this hand is unusual but that doesn't make the bet on the river a bad one. It's reasonable after his check to narrow his range down to hands we beat and 22. It's pretty bad from him to call on the flop with KT, and atypical to check the river after check-raising the turn. This time he happened to have an unlikely hand, but most of the time your opponents won't play this way. That makes this a definite +ev value bet on the river.

    You should probably bet a little bit more on the flop but the main thing about your play that I disagree with is the size of the value bet on the river. He has £12.02 back in a £12.50 pot. So your bet on the river should either be a pot-sized shove to get maximum value from the weaker two-pairs, or a really small bet to get value from a wider range: He might call £3 or so with a raggy Ace but he's unlikely to call £6 on this board, getting only 3/1... I'd just get the lot in.
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited June 2012
    think it's played fine

    I'd probz vbet river even though it may well be a check back
  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited June 2012
    At NL20 i think its rare that you will ever get check raised on the river with a non nut hand. 

    i would always bet river for value at this level so would say bet/fold is optimal unless reads give you a good reason to think otherwise
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