10NL Hand - lost value on turn?

Lambert180

Did I play this ok? Feared I might lose value on the turn, I might be trying to rep too specific a hand/range but I wanted it to look like I was check/calling with just 1 big heart and so planned to overbet 'bluff' the river if another heart didn't come.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Lambert180	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£12.81
skymac47	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£9.95
rancid	Sit out
	Your hole cards	8 Q
Askull	Fold
archwiz28	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£11.65
poker1	Fold
Lambert180	Call		£0.05	£0.30	£12.76
skymac47	Check
Flop
		4 10 A
Lambert180	Check
skymac47	Check
archwiz28	Bet		£0.23	£0.53	£11.42
Lambert180	Call		£0.23	£0.76	£12.53
skymac47	Fold
Turn
		Q
Lambert180	Check
archwiz28	Check
River
		J
Lambert180	Bet		£1.25	£2.01	£11.28
archwiz28	Call		£1.25	£3.26	£10.17
Lambert180	Show	8 Q
archwiz28	Muck	K 10
Lambert180	Win	Flush to the Ace	£3.01		£14.29

Curt360x27

I would lead flop, bet turn and  river around 3/4.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 10NL Hand - lost value on turn?:

I would lead flop, bet turn and  river around 3/4.
Posted by Curt360x27

You don't think that's gonna scare off alot of hands? seen as I hold 2 hearts and the 2nd nut flush heart

KAM99

In Response to Re: 10NL Hand - lost value on turn?:

In Response to Re: 10NL Hand - lost value on turn? : You don't think that's gonna scare off alot of hands? seen as I hold 2 hearts and the 2nd nut flush heart
Posted by Lambert180

Not really. So rare people like to believe you've flopped a flush, and most will likely think you have a heart. Not to mention you don't know if the guy has king of hearts in his hand, and so I'd rather bet and get some value in than give cheap cards to people. Yeah you might scare him off, but I doubt he credits you with an ace often with no preflop raise.. etc.

Just bet when you have hand and see if you get action. Beats not betting and missign value when they do have one.

EvilPingu

I'm not sure about completing the SB, Q8 isn't a hand I want to be playing out of position. It's pretty, but I think a fold pre is better, or maybe raise to punish the limper. Calling is the worst of the 3 options IMO. 

As played, I'm looking to get as much money as I can in with this hand, unless another heart comes, and even then, it's tough to get away from the second nuts. When you flop a big hand, you need to get as much value as you can, and you do that by betting all three streets. 

It's a limped pot, it's not like someone is going to cbet because nobody has the pre-flop aggression, so lead out, and go big as someone with the King of Hearts is going to call us, someone with a made hand is unlikely to believe we've got a flush and put us on a semi-bluff with one heart.

This is arguably the nut best turn card for you to get even more value from. Never, ever check the turn. If he's got either the King or Jack of Hearts, the other card in his hand is likely to have hit that board, and it's possible that the opponent may choose to semi-bluff raise a one pair hand with either the King or the Jack of Hearts as possible outs, hands like J9 with either the 9 or J or hearts might raise, KJ will raise, QT will raise, so it's quite possible to get stacks in on the turn against a ton of hands which we have absolutely crushed.

River bet is fine. 

BorinLoner

I think it's best to lead this flop. Since it's a limped pot we can't expect anyone to bet behind us if we check. If we bet, anyone holding an Ace is likely to continue in the hand as is anyone holding a decent heart. In fact, if someone's holding an Ace here they may raise in an effort to charge you to draw if you have one heart yourself. They're very unlikely to think you have a big Ace, since you didn't raise pre-flop and obviously a flopped flush is unlikely, so anyone holding an Ace could easily think they have the best hand.

Granted, alot of the time you'll lead out on this flop and everyone will just fold. You won't get any money in by checking either, though, and a hand that might call a bet on the flop might not call a bet on a later street if scare cards come or they miss their own flush draw. Do your own betting here, I think.

NColley

raise or fold pre, don't complete, when you complete you more then likely c/f everytime you miss (the majority of the time)

as played, lead flop, lead turn, overbet river.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 10NL Hand - lost value on turn?:

raise or fold pre, don't complete, when you complete you more then likely c/f everytime you miss (the majority of the time) as played, lead flop, lead turn, overbet river.
Posted by NColley

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's a genuine question because I'm quite unexperienced at cash, apart from the mindless waiting for big hands at 4NL but...

Dya think there is 100% no room for ever making up in these spots? If it costs me 5p to make up, say I only hit my lovely flops, 2pr, trips, flushes, FDs, str8s etc 1 in 50 times, that means on the 1 time I do hit my dream flop, I only need to win a £2.50 (25BB) pot to make up for the 49 x 5ps I've lost when I c/f.

Is this a terrible thought process?

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: 10NL Hand - lost value on turn?:

In Response to Re: 10NL Hand - lost value on turn? : I'm not saying you're wrong, it's a genuine question because I'm quite unexperienced at cash, apart from the mindless waiting for big hands at 4NL but... Dya think there is 100% no room for ever making up in these spots? If it costs me 5p to make up, say I only hit my lovely flops, 2pr, trips, flushes, FDs, str8s etc 1 in 50 times, that means on the 1 time I do hit my dream flop, I only need to win a £2.50 (25BB) pot to make up for the 49 x 5ps I've lost when I c/f. Is this a terrible thought process?
Posted by Lambert180

You'll need to be confident of turning a 3BB pot into a 25 BB pot every time you do hit that 1/50 shot. That won't happen very often, as most of those times the other limpers won't have made a strong enough hand to build that pot. Plus, since you're playing out of position you'll find it even harder to get value when you do hit your hand. You'll really struggle to average a 25BB pot in these situations. (I'm not backing up your 1/50 or 1/25 numbers here. Truth is I'd have no idea what numbers to put on combined two-pair, flush, straight, trips, etc.)

NColley

Rare circumstances like when a player in the BB raises limpers too much or is 3betting you alot then you can limp and trap him with big hands.

Otherwise in the SB I'd stick to raising a strong top pair/good kicker heavy range vs limpers/loose BB's, a tight range when facing an open and raising almost any 2 unopened vs tight BB's.

Lambert180

They didn't call on the flop, they bet lol, but I get what ya mean.