Deep Stack Tips

DOOOOG

Hi,

 Just started dabbling in the world of deep stacks, played 2 0r 3.

 Normally do OK(ish) in the freeze out and BH tourneys I play, but seem to be floundering about in the DS's they seem to play quite differently.

 Seems harder to push people off hands and bluff, but sitting and waiting for hands or drawing seems the wrong approach too.

 Also I guess hand selection is more important too.
 
  Any tips on playing this format from my learned fellow players?

Cheers,
Doug

Lambert180

There seems to be 2 schools of thought for deepstacks...

1) Some people say you should see as many flops as possible for cheap and try to flop a whopper and get chipped up early.

2) Some people say you should play very tight for the first few levels, have a tight opening range, maybe something like ATs+, AQo+ and 22+ as there's no need getting involved so early when the blinds are so small.

I think it depends what kind of table you have. If you have a table full of tight people, open up a bit, start playing more hands and try to outplay them.

If you got a very loose passive table then just wait for big hands and get max value from them.

I think the main thing is that there's no rush, on Sky in a deepstack, if you still have your starting stack or even down to 4k after the 1st hour, you're usually still not in that much trouble.

Oopnorth

These are my game of choice at low stakes.
I just typed up almost a page of theoretical stuff but as usual a nonsense pop up screwed up the whole reply.
 So I give up. Gl at the tables.

Wilhelm

I tend to think that if the table is tight there's not much point in risking 60 chips to win 30 when you're sitting with 5000.  Generally I think tight is right.  We preserve our stack so that when we get a double up, it's a bigger double up, and we create a nice tight table image for us to exploit when the blinds get bigger.  

Sometimes if the table is looser it pays to loosen up yourself, but this really depends on your confidence in your ability to play post flop.  

Batkin88

Deepstack tourneys are good as you can play all sorts of ways profitably!! One tip is never to start each tourney with the same gameplan! Really work on both being TAG and LAG and even passive although I havent got that in me. Sit at the table and watch and assess your table for a few orbits, if the table is really aggro then play super tight as you can afford to wait for hands, get one and bet big or the opposite if not many hands are going to flop start 3 betting / 4 betting pre raise a wider selection of hands and so on! Also look for the weakest player at the table and try and pick on them early as there not going to be there with chips later so take advantage of the player who plays weakest against your methods. Don't show hands it's pointless especially if you make a good bluff unless your planning on only flopping quads for the rest or the tourney.
Gl at the felt

BorinLoner

If I could offer one piece of advice for deepstack play:

In bounty hunters and shorter stacked tournaments you can frequently get away without having positional discipline. In deepstack play, you'll be punished for this as you'll be playing alot more through the streets. So try to play almost exclusively in position. Fold almost everything UTG and UTG+1, don't bother trying to defend your blinds and don't make up from the small blind. The button is your best weapon.

Position.

oynutter

One of the most important aspects of getting to final table of deep stacks is knowing when to change gear--- 2nd gear when blinds reach 150/300-----3rd gear when 300/600---4th 600/1200---top 3000/6000

In early levels just play "spot da loonie" 

2nd gear-- raise solid players to nick a few blinds, but stay tight if you have the stack to do so - no more flat calling now

3rd-- fold a few buttons to look solid enough, then nick some blinds

4th- you can now afford to exploit people that are scared of bubble as smaller stacks will fold even to a min raise

top-- note who is playing tight in bb-- and anyone still flat calling sb--- raise big--up to nearly a third of your stack, so you can just afford to fold to a shove

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips:

One of the most important aspects of getting to final table of deep stacks is knowing when to change gear--- 2nd gear when blinds reach 150/300-----3rd gear when 300/600---4th 600/1200---top 3000/6000 In early levels just play "spot da loonie"  2nd gear-- raise solid players to nick a few blinds, but stay tight if you have the stack to do so - no more flat calling now 3rd-- fold a few buttons to look solid enough, then nick some blinds 4th- you can now afford to exploit people that are scared of bubble as smaller stacks will fold even to a min raise top-- note who is playing tight in bb-- and anyone still flat calling sb--- raise big--up to nearly a third of your stack, so you can just afford to fold to shove
Posted by oynutter

Cant argue with the advice here, considering your excellent record on sky at these mtts.

But the last highlighted part, i find hard to swallow. I can never forsee a senario when im raise folding for 1/3 of my stack. ever. 

oynutter

Cheers Greggers----At 3000/6000 any meaningful raise is likely to be nearly 1/3 of your stack, if someone shoves, you may want to fold, you are often raising light at this level --- also, if a shove is called before you act, you may hope to ladder by folding--- I've folded plenty of times with nearly 1/3 of my stack in the middle

oynutter

The idea of raising for nearly 1/3 of your stack is that people don't think you are prepared to fold, so are very unlikely to call or shove without a massive hand--- at 3000/6000 the blinds are the difference between 5th place and winning, so when you want to nick some, you need the best chance you can get of getting your raise though.

DOOOOG

Wow, lots of feedback, thanks for all the advice folks. I will digest it and apply it in some tourneys.

Do people think playing DS's is a god way to build overall skill level and even prepare for the cash tables?

I'm looking for formats that improve my overall game. I've got a lot out of playing HU games and was thinking this might be another way to build skill.

OopNorth, that's a shame about your post, it sounds good. Maybe you could type it into note pad and cut and paste into the forum. Then if it crashes you still have the text.

Batkin88

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips:

Wow, lots of feedback, thanks for all the advice folks. I will digest it and apply it in some tourneys. Do people think playing DS's is a god way to build overall skill level and even prepare for the cash tables? I'm looking for formats that improve my overall game. I've got a lot out of playing HU games and was thinking this might be another way to build skill. OopNorth, that's a shame about your post, it sounds good. Maybe you could type it into note pad and cut and paste into the forum. Then if it crashes you still have the text.
Posted by DOOOOG

Hu or deepstacks are the way to go, you play more hands and get a better feel for the game.

In response to OYNUTTER about the third of a stack thing I get what your doing however are you raising the same if you get aces or kings??

oynutter

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips:

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips : Hu or deepstacks are the way to go, you play more hands and get a better feel for the game. In response to OYNUTTER about the third of a stack thing I get what your doing however are you raising the same if you get aces or kings??
Posted by Batkin88

 Hi Batkin--- The big raise is more for stealing blinds or hands you don't want to see a flop with--- with kk or aa I would just shove all in -- When blinds are 3000/6000, I'd rather not see any flops at all

oynutter

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips:

Wow, lots of feedback, thanks for all the advice folks. I will digest it and apply it in some tourneys. Do people think playing DS's is a god way to build overall skill level and even prepare the cash tables? I'hm looking for formats that improve my overall game. I've got a lot out of playing HU games and was thinkingfor tis might be another way to build skill. OopNorth, that's a shame about your post, it sounds good. Maybe you could type it into note pad and cut and paste into the forum. Then if it crashes you still have the text.
Posted by DOOOOG

Hi Doooog, I think the early levels of a ds are good for learning how to play cash games--- and they are certainly the best value games for learning tournament play--- Make a lot of notes in ds games, when you spot a loonie, make sure you note them, they seem to rarely change their style--- As Batkin said--- lots of styles can be profitable, but only one or two are hard to exploit.

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips:

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips : Hi Doooog, I think the early levels of a ds are good for learning how to play cash games--- and they are certainly the best value games for learning tournament play--- Make a lot of notes in ds games, when you spot a loonie, make sure you note them, they seem to rarely change their style--- As Batkin said--- lots of styles can be profitable, but only one or two are hard to exploit.
Posted by oynutter

Having shared a deepstack table with you a couple of nights ago, I assume I have been noted.

oynutter

LOL--you have-- but I can't remember what I said-- Anyway, all my notes are in a code form that cannot be quoted on the forum.

Sky_Poker

Really interesting this.

Would you like to see it as a discussion topic on the show?

Thanks
Sky Poker

TRIP5

Early in deepstacks watch out for people playing nasty little straightening hands like 35, 68, 97 etc..

These sorts of hands crack aces, kings etc beautifully because they are 'hidden' .. if you decide to add these hands to your own range (in position) in the early levels of a deepstack you will usually be able to get max value when they hit..

Conversely do not overvalue single pocket pairs in the early levels - you want to be the one busting aces, not being bust with them!!

Deepstacks allow you some space to dance so use it to get a feel for the play and the table but most of all enjoy!!!!

Gl at the baize

xx

oynutter

If you like Trip5's advice on playing small connectors, you can get involved in some costly draws---- It can be a good idea to allocate around 1000 chips of your 5k stack for early fishing--- It's a risky strategy, so you must have the discipline to stop fishing once your stack dips below 4k. In a large field it can work out well, but discipline is key, because the more you deplete your stack, the more risks you feel you have to take.

oynutter

In Response to Re: Deep Stack Tips:

Really interesting this. Would you like to see it as a discussion topic on the show? Thanks Sky Poker
Posted by Sky_Poker

 No, not really--- I'd rather keep strategy tips a secret--woops!!!---lol

DOOOOG

I think a discussion on deepstack strategy would be a good idea.

 There is a lot of discussion about short stack play in tourneys so this would be a nice counterbalance. I assume some of the ideas would help out for cash play too.

Cheers,
Doug