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small debate

pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
edited July 2012 in The Poker Clinic
we had our mnthly tourny this evening, 50 runners, pretty quick format. now i wasnt in the hand but on the table, im not saying which side i am leaning towards as i want a neutral answer. 
starting stack 17k (dont ask) level 5 blinds 400/800. utg lag has stack of 9k raises to 2.4k, station in mid with stack of 12k flats, button very nitty jams all in for 10k. this is the last hand before the break ,blinds 500//1000 next level.
utg counts the pot and calls, mid folds and the cards go over. utg has kj. 
rate the call plz. cheers phil
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Comments

  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2012
    Has to call after his initial 3x open from an 11xbb stack.

    He'd be better off just open shoving in the first place. (or folding)


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  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited July 2012
    Yeah he can't fold but also should never ever be opening 3x UTG should be shove or fold pre.
    Level 5 already that deep how lond are your blinds?
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited July 2012
    20 min blinds. like i say pretty quick format. starts at 7 and finishes about 12 ish. all a bit of fun really but it gets 50 runners and is a good social game. wide range of ability. just the person who went out could only see the call with kj and didnt really get the maths. when i tried to explain it, i got shot down lol
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited July 2012

    Sounds like quite poor play all round... but they're entitled to do whatever they like with their money. What did the Big Blind shove with?

    Perhaps he shot you down because he'd just gone out and didn't want to hear it:

    "Actually that call that knocked you out just now was totally standard. You really should have expected it."

    "Yeah, cheers mate."

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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited July 2012
    it was button that went out and they had a10 !!!!. she just couldnt get head around that kj called , and it was here husband that i was "debating" with :-)

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited July 2012
    educating people at the table never works and tbh - you shouldn't anyway )
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited July 2012
    lol rancid, i wouldnt have got involved but a few of them was giving him a hard time and i thought it was totally unjustified.
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  • thejudge10thejudge10 Member Posts: 465
    edited July 2012
    Think he really has to call,given his remaining chip stack,would have been much better to shove it all in,rather than 3x with K J.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited July 2012
    In Response to Re: small debate:
    Has to call after his initial 3x open from an 11xbb stack. He'd be better off just open shoving in the first place. (or folding)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Was going to type "only read OP" and reply, but read over Dohs (as first reply) and it pretty much covers it.

    Only thing in addition: Other stacks would enter my decision process based on ICM as played, but its just always AIPF with..9?bbs for me.

    (my new pic rocks btw).
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited July 2012
     Fairly obvious S/F spot (pref fold imo given full ring and positional factors). 3 x with 400/800 is dire no matter what your stack size. 1600 does the same job. 

    The maths considering the play:

    16000 in the pot. 6600 back in his stack. ~2.4-1.

    Assuming a reship rate of a standard mega-nit to be around 5% we can see the normal hand spread as: 99+,AJs+,AQo+ (Debatable to add 88 and AJo)

    Against this range KJ holds ~31% equity (99+,AJs+,AQo+ ~69%).

    And rounded for ease of calculation:

    KJ: 30%
    99+,AJs+,AQo+: 70%

    70/30= ~2.3-1. Super thin but it's a call
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